The Apologists Erupt in Anger over Ex-MST

[_Gadianton]

http://exmormonscholarstestify.org/index.html

If an apologetic eruption could delay flights, Europe would be screwed more than ever since the completion of the new website, Ex-Mormon Scholars Testify. This site, built on a dream and a shoestring budget humbly featuring a single testimony has triggered outrage in the apologetic community. LoaP, a rising star in apologetics recently promoted to mid-tier status is leading the mob with his post found here at MAD:

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/topic/ ... s-testify/

Though LoaP leads the cause, the very first known critic of Ex-MST is none other than Stan Barker, the principle founder of online Mopologetics,

They leave the Church, but they can't leave it alone." What a bunch of losers.... Get a life.

LoaP, following Barker's lead in the attack and freshly charged with grammatical hubris since being published in The Review gets right to the task of making corrections to punctuation. He then marches on and condemns the use of a stock photo:

What they lack in originality they make up for in cheesy stock photos of business people.

JWhitlock, a junior apologist who hasn't been so successful as his contemporary LoaP, having been cast aside by DCP/Hamblin who refused his offer for editorial help in their anti-Hitchens writing campaign, took his rightful place a step behind LoaP and dutifully backed up the insult:

Cheesy stock photo on the link, indeed.

Others are making similar comments. They must have forgotten that one of the main tools of the More Good Foundation has been to erect websites using stock photos. The hypocrisy! And besides, it's not like the welcome photo of MST isn't "cheesy".

LoaP then moves into a personal attack on the websites first scholar:

Latayne Scott (who in personal conversation with me has shown a complete inability or unwillingness to engage Mormon thought in any reasonable way

Wow! A DCPesque tactic perfectly played: In my personal correspondence, person X has proven to be inept and dull. If you knew what I knew about the situation, I'm sure you'd be inclined to agree.

The recent abrasively remade persona of David Bokovoy adds his voice,

I wonder if the fact that he chose an author of anti-Mormon fiction as the first "scholar" is an intentional effort to mock the academic credentials of those who appear on Dan's website? After all, if a woman who holds degrees from non-accredited institutions and whose contributions as a "scholar"

Indeed, a woman (no less) with degrees David doesn't respect should keep her mouth shut about her intellectual experiences. This remark from David earned A "high-five" from LoaP.

The aggressive mfbukowski who has proven uninterested in philosophical debates lately but rather fond of personally criticizing those with non-TBM arguments, chimes in to continue his toe of the Mopologetic party line and in-crowd insults. This, just after announcing giving attention to critics is a bad thing as it just gives them attention, taking the apologists away from the pursuit of substance -- perhaps he's learning what apologetics is really about?

Definitely pretty bad.

If you are going to do something like that, have 5 or 10 people with some scholarly credibility lined up at least to kick it off, and dump the stock business people photo.

I'm sure he's just fine though with the stock photos on the front page of blacklds.org, I mean, FAIR's More Good Foundation which basically invented MST in the first place uses stock photos.

We'll see how this plays out. It's interesting that such a small website could cause such a tremendous outrage by the apologists. According to their theories regarding critic reactions to MST, this knee-jerk reaction from the apologists must speak to the truth of Ex-MST.

[_Dwight Frye]

I must be going soft in my old age -- I agree, more or less, with the apologists' assessment of Ex-MST.

[_Gadianton]

Hi Dwight,

Well, so far the primary focal point of the attack has been the stock photo on the main page. Sure, a case can be made that stock photo use is undesirable, I won't say I entirely disagree, however, given the way FAIR uses stock photos themselves for their campaigns, it's hypocritical and an empty complaint.

And even if there were nothing at all redeeming about the site, the quick backlash from apologists I think says something, given the sites fledgling state.

[_harmony]

There must be some mistake. MAD has long browbeat us with the label of anti-Mormon website, yet we don't even merit a passing mention on Ex-MST. I think we'll just have to settle for being fair and evenhanded, rather than taking one side or the other.

[_Trevor]

I thought there ought to be an ex-Mormon scholars testify site. Little did I know that it was being cooked up. I am disappointed that the first offering is a "let's convert them to the real Jesus" scholarly witness. Too bad.

[_Gadianton]

Hi Trevor,

I can understand why you would feel this way. But I have to point out that reacting negatively to this site, per their own logic when defending MST, just proves that this site is headed in the right direction and destined for success.

[_Doctor Scratch]

Dean Robbers,

Could you perhaps provide a link to Stan Barker's remarks? I wasn't able to find them at MAD....

[_Gadianton]

I'm sorry professor. I'm glad you're not an apologist, you'd really have raked me over the coals then for a sloppy attribution!

Barker didn't reply at MAD, if you read the main page of Ex-MST, Barker's comments appear there from a nasty email he sent to the site's admins.

Hey -- have you sent a nasty email to MST calling them names? I know I haven't. It looks like the apologists are far more desperate than we are.

[_Enuma Elish]

The recent abrasively remade persona of David Bokovoy adds his voice,

I wonder if the fact that he chose an author of anti-Mormon fiction as the first "scholar" is an intentional effort to mock the academic credentials of those who appear on Dan's website? After all, if a woman who holds degrees from non-accredited institutions and whose contributions as a "scholar"

Indeed, a woman (no less) with degrees David doesn't respect should keep her mouth shut about her intellectual experiences.

I may be abrasive, but you are an ass! How dare you assume that when someone mentions a person's gender, if the individual happens to be female, the statement is automatically a derogatory reference!! For the record, I hold very strong feminist feelings and would never suggest that a "woman" whose degrees I don't respect should keep her mouth shut about her intellectual experiences. You have seriously misrepresented what I said. Here is the full quote:

"I wonder if the fact that he chose an author of anti-Mormon fiction as the first "scholar" is an intentional effort to mock the academic credentials of those who appear on Dan's website? After all, if a woman who holds degrees from non-accredited institutions and whose contributions as a "scholar" amount to a book of fiction concerning a rebellious Utah socialite found murdered in Provo Canyon with strange markings carved into her flesh and a note written in a 19th Century secret Mormon code is any indication of things to come, whether intentional or not, this parody should offer some serious entertainment!"

And I for one am certainly not angry over the site. I honestly do find both it and the portrayal of Mrs. Scott as a scholar quite entertaining.

[_MrStakhanovite]

MST was kinda silly to begin with. Do Mormons really need a website where they can read educated people reaffirm their deeply loved values? I don't think so, given that if a day comes I ever have to go someplace like MST to strengthen my beliefs, that is the day I stop thinking for myself.

Now that there is an Ex-MST site, the silly factor goes up a notch. Instead of just letting the website make a mockery of itself to the entire interwebz, they get testy that someone else is moved in on their, " OMG VALIDATE ME" project and they begin to see themselves in the mirror and lash out. Hence the comments about the stock photos and a lack of a "real scholar"

Chick shows up at a party with the same dress? Make fun of her fat thighs.

It's an odd thing, the roads people take, to be taken seriously.