Church of Heavenly Father

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_Yoda

Re: Church of Heavenly Father

Post by _Yoda »

zeezrom wrote:
liz3564 wrote:in my opinion, they should be learning about Christ. I think it gets very conflated and confused.

I pray to Jesus.

Thank you for sharing, Liz! So I'm not alone in thinking this is confusing! I was starting to wonder....

Really?! You pray to Jesus. This is mind blowing.

I'll have to consider this over the weekend.


Hmmm...I have never really considered it mind-blowing. Who is easier to relate to? God the Father (Elohim) or God the Son (Christ)?

Christ is who gave His life for us, and suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane for us. Christ came to this earth, and taught by both example and deed. It is the beattitudes and Christ's teachings of loving one another that have had the most personal influence on me. Why would I not feel more comfortable praying to and primarily worshiping Christ?
_zeezrom
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Re: Church of Heavenly Father

Post by _zeezrom »

liz3564 wrote:Christ is who gave His life for us, and suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane for us. Christ came to this earth, and taught by both example and deed. It is the beattitudes and Christ's teachings of loving one another that have had the most personal influence on me. Why would I not feel more comfortable praying to and primarily worshiping Christ?

I've grown up talking to HF all these years.

Maybe the Christians that believe in God as just God were right all along....
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

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_Joseph Antley
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Re: Church of Heavenly Father

Post by _Joseph Antley »

Why does it have to be a competition?
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_Nimrod
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Re: Church of Heavenly Father

Post by _Nimrod »

Joseph Antley wrote:Why does it have to be a competition?

What competition do you see, Joseph?

I see Zeezrom trying to explain that he has prayed to Elohim and understood that to be the correct LDS procedure, doing so in the name of Jesus Christ (Jehovah).

Liz has made abundantly clear that she prays to Jesus Christ.

I do not see either as a competition, but Zeezrom's question to find out what is correct protocol.
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_Yoda

Re: Church of Heavenly Father

Post by _Yoda »

Joseph Antley wrote:Why does it have to be a competition?


It isn't.
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Re: Church of Heavenly Father

Post by _Nimrod »

zeezrom wrote:
liz3564 wrote:Christ is who gave His life for us, and suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane for us. Christ came to this earth, and taught by both example and deed. It is the beattitudes and Christ's teachings of loving one another that have had the most personal influence on me. Why would I not feel more comfortable praying to and primarily worshiping Christ?

I've grown up talking to HF all these years.

Maybe the Christians that believe in God as just God were right all along....


Perhaps.

You might want to review this talk by BRM, who was sent to BYU by the FP/12 to deliver a rebuke to a fashionable trend then at BYU, to develop a personal relationship with Jesus.
http://www.zionsbest.com/relationship.html

I find the quotes you gave from Riddle, Ladd and Faust interesting, and wonder if tacking now in that direction, away from the more orthodox LDS views expressed earlier (1982) by BRM is just more evidence of the watering down of LDS Inc teachings so that it can be more accepted as mainstream Christianity--sort of like the disheveling of the King Follett doctrine by GBH on Larry King Live.
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_just me
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Re: Church of Heavenly Father

Post by _just me »

Zee, on the other thread I mentioned that Joseph prayed to Jehovah. Here are my thoughts and scriptural references for praying to JC and JC being God, the Father. I am not saying that is right or whatever, just that many have come to that conclusion after reading the LDS scriptures.

Here are just some of the scriptural examples of praying to Jehovah-Jesus Christ or that the Son is the Eternal Father.

D&C 109 is the Kirtland Temple dedicatory prayer. It is opened to "the Lord God of Isreal" and the name Jehovah is used 4 times and LORD is used about 15 times.
D&C 109:79 And also this church, to put upon it thy name. (which would be the name of Christ)

LDS doctrine teaches that Jehovah (the God of the Old Testament) is Jesus Christ. Here is a short chapter from the Old Testament institute manual that clarifies this. I don't agree with the whole thing, but it does have some very good references.

So all the Old Testament patriarchs and prophets prayed to and worshipped the God of Isreal, Jehovah. They were commanded to do so.

The Book of Mormon also makes a case for Jesus Christ being the creator and Eternal God. The one God to be worshipped.

The preface states that "Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God." This repeats in 2 Nephi 26:12

Mosiah 3:8 And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning;
Mosiah 3:17 states in part "the name of Christ, the Lord Omnipotent."
This chapter also states that He will come among "his people" and sent "his prophets" and the "Lord God saw that his people were stiffnecked."

I think Mosiah 5 is excellent to show that covenants are made with Christ. We become the children of Christ and that he is the Lord God Omnipotent.

Mosiah 13:28 And moreover, I say unto you, that salvation doth not come by the law alone; and were it not for the atonement, which God himself shall make for the sins and iniquities of his people, that they must unavoidably perish, notwithstanding the law of Moses.

There are several places in the Book of Mormon that have been changed from the original which read "that the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father." Our books currently read "that the Lamb of God is the Son of the Eternal Father." We have no record of a revelation from God authorizing the changes.

1 Nephi 11:18 (original version) And he said unto me: Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of God, after the manner of the flesh.

Alma 11:38 Now Zeezrom saith again unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father?
39 And Amulek said unto him: Yea, he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are; he is the beginning and the end, the first and the last;
40 And he shall come into the world to redeem his people; and he shall take upon him the transgressions of those who believe on his name; and these are they that shall have eternal life, and salvation cometh to none else.

D&C 65:4 Pray unto the Lord, call upon his holy name, make known his wonderful works among the people.
D&C 37:2 And again, I say unto you that ye shall not go until ye have preached my gospel in those parts, and have strengthened up the church whithersoever it is found, and more especially in Colesville; for, behold, they pray unto me in much faith.

D&C 6:22 seems to indicate that Oliver was praying in his heart to Jesus Christ, the Son of God. This chapter also says to "ask of me." Read the whole thing, but especially vs. 21-23. Jesus refers to them as "his sons" in this chapter.
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_Redefined
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Re: Church of Heavenly Father

Post by _Redefined »

I cringe when I hear a prayer opened with "Heavenly Father". I'd rather hear "Father in Heaven" or "Dear Lord", anything but the usual Mormon prayer. When I first parted ways with my Mormon beliefs, I was somewhat inclined towards prayer. I had a difficult time with what a prayer should be. (I wanted to get it right the second time around!) I've learned that there is no "set prayer", I believe that it doesn't matter, even if you were to open with "hey you, with the beard", and close with "Mary, Jesus and mashed potatoes, Amen".
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_scripturesearcher
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Re: Church of Heavenly Father

Post by _scripturesearcher »

With a Trinitarian view this is not a problem at all.

The Trinity is a little bit different than the LDS concept of 3 Gods one in purpose.

I accept the Trinity concept. By the way, the word Trinity is not found in scripture. It is a term that was developed to try to explain a complex concept of the nature of God.

Here is a little example that people can relate to that might make it easier to understand the Trinitarian belief:

My (earthly) father is the father of me.
My (earthly) father is the son of his father.
My (earthly) father is the uncle of my cousin.

So he has 3 very different descriptions that have different meanings, but he is still 1 person.
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_zeezrom
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Re: Church of Heavenly Father

Post by _zeezrom »

scripturesearcher wrote:With a Trinitarian view this is not a problem at all.

So you address the Father in prayer but in your mind you have one entity in mind? This being would be the same we read about in the New Testament?

In essence, you have a "relationship" with a single God?

I asked about this on MA&D and got comments like this:

"You might try thinking of prayer as a family council." http://www.mormonapologetics.org/topic/ ... gh-prayer/

It is not intuitive or easy for me to build a relationship with God this way. It is hard enough for me to believe in him, let alone have some complicated poly-relationship thing. It would be nice to just to believe in God and talk to God. You know, like Fiddler on the Roof. Can't we have that?
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)

The Holy Sacrament.
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