Update 5-21, New Testimonies On Ex-MST

[_ExMormonScholar]

http://exmormonscholarstestify.org/testimonies.html

[_TAK]

For those that do not follow this regularly when you post this, why not say at least who has been added...

[_Kevin Graham]

and do us a favor by bumping the same thread, and not creating a new one each time. That gets redundant and crowded.

[_why me]

I love this from Justin Anderson:

[The Three Witnesses]

I do not consider the witnesses to the Book of Mormon reliable. Religious experiences from angel visitations to visions occur frequently enough to regard any claimant with suspicion. Compound on that the fundamentally superstitious and gullible men who acted as the Book of Mormon witnesses and who referred to the experience as a "vision" and the value of their testimony is diminished significantly. Although not meaningless, the weight from my perspective of the witnesses testimony with regard to the Book’s veracity is small.

Taken from the antimormon handbook found on the internet. No mention of how they kept their testimony throughout their lives and at least Oliver and David gave deathbed testimonies. But...for this exmormon, that means nothing. Truly amazing.

[_Trevor]

No mention of how they kept their testimony throughout their lives and at least Oliver and David gave deathbed testimonies. But...for this exmormon, that means nothing. Truly amazing.

You know what makes their testimonies valuable to you? Your testimony.

It is truly amazing to me that you think someone who has lost their own testimony should value that of a bunch of rubes on the American frontier of the 19th century.

Do most people convert through Moroni's promise or the Book of Mormon witnesses? When I acquired a testimony of the Book of Mormon, I can assure you that it had absolutely nothing to do with the 11 witnesses, at least directly.

Conversion really does come about through the Spirit, not the reliability of the Whitmer clan and Martin Harris.

[_why me]

No mention of how they kept their testimony throughout their lives and at least Oliver and David gave deathbed testimonies. But...for this exmormon, that means nothing. Truly amazing.

You know what makes their testimonies valuable to you? Your testimony.

It is truly amazing to me that you think someone who has lost their own testimony should value that of a bunch of rubes on the American frontier of the 19th century.

Do most people convert through Moroni's promise or the Book of Mormon witnesses? When I acquired a testimony of the Book of Mormon, I can assure you that it had absolutely nothing to do with the 11 witnesses, at least directly.

Conversion really does come about through the Spirit, not the reliability of the Whitmer clan and Martin Harris.

Well, trevor you have a point. But these days with the information on the internet written by antimormons who use persuasive techiques, facts found in the witnesses are needed. Oliver is a case in point. His story is very faith confirming. As is Sidney (not a witness but still) and David and John Whitmer and Hiram Page. Justin just brushed it all off in a short paragraph. Which says much about Justin and exmo testimony.

[_Runtu]

Well, trevor you have a point. But these days with the information on the internet written by antimormons who use persuasive techiques, facts found in the witnesses are needed. Oliver is a case in point. His story is very faith confirming. As is Sidney (not a witness but still) and David and John Whitmer and Hiram Page. Justin just brushed it all off in a short paragraph. Which says much about Justin and exmo testimony.

Like Trevor's my testimony had nothing to do with the witnesses. I've gone the rounds with Dan Peterson about this, but I've never found the witnesses particularly compelling. Whether or not the Book of Mormon is true ought not to depend on the word of men I've never met; it either stands on its own (either through compelling evidence or spiritual witness), or not, regardless of who said they saw what.

For me, the compelling evidence is, unfortunately, on the side of the Book of Mormon not actually being a translation of an ancient record, so the testimony of 11 men, no matter how deeply held, is pretty irrelevant.

[_Trevor]

Well, trevor you have a point. But these days with the information on the internet written by antimormons who use persuasive techiques, facts found in the witnesses are needed. Oliver is a case in point. His story is very faith confirming. As is Sidney (not a witness but still) and David and John Whitmer and Hiram Page. Justin just brushed it all off in a short paragraph. Which says much about Justin and exmo testimony.

What do you find so compelling about the witnesses that should make a difference to someone who lacks a testimony?