Newly Published Study on Same-Sex Parenting

[_MrStakhanovite]

True. But it's almost always better at those elite universities than at ideological think tanks.

No. Gays, Liberals and Evolutionists run the 'elite universities' and use it as a launching point for their culture war that's slowly bringing about the demise of America and it's proud Judeo-Christian values. Exactly what Paul warned us about:

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.

Ain't that right Rob? The statistics have to be skewed because Lesbians did it. Lesbians have a sinful mind.

[_The Nehor]

Would this study have seen the light of day if the findings had shown the opposite result?

Would the conservative think tank's?

Probably no on both counts. I don't really trust either. It's so easy to skew findings like this.

[_MrStakhanovite]

Would this study have seen the light of day if the findings had shown the opposite result?

Would the conservative think tank's?

Probably no on both counts. I don't really trust either. It's so easy to skew findings like this.

It's only easy if you hide your methods and data.

[_The Nehor]

Now I'm even more sure of what I said. A little clicking and you find that virtually everyone supervising the study was a lesbian and that a great of those donating funds are foundations for Gay & Lesbian equality. I can't see these people turning around to their donors and saying the data was against them.

The study relied on volunteers (self-selection) and the various things they did not correct for makes me suspicious. I'd like to see data on the socioeconomic status of the family. All those sampled were from 3 metropoliton areas and I'm guessing that those who would choose to participate would be the more educated and more politically active of the sample. This almost always means wealthier which almost always leads to children with higher scores.

I'm not faulting the researchers, they probably did what they could but I don't think this is anything more then a morale victory. Hopefully a more comprehensive study is on the way. I also would like to see data about children raised by male homosexual couples.

[_The Nehor]

Would this study have seen the light of day if the findings had shown the opposite result?

Would the conservative think tank's?

Probably no on both counts. I don't really trust either. It's so easy to skew findings like this.

It's only easy if you hide your methods and data.

Not really, I'm not accusing them of hiding their methods or data. The shortcomings of the study are in the article.

I am saying that I would bet diamonds to doughnuts that if the data went against them the study would have been terminated.

[_asbestosman]

Given the results of this study, I am curious about single-parent households. Do kids in such situations do as well as children of lesbians under certain circumstances? What I'd like to do is determine what the contributing factors for success are (where success here is rated as scholastic success, less social problems, less aggression, and obedience). I wonder, for example, whether fathers correlate with a child's aggression since men are naturally more aggressive due to hormones. I also wonder to what extent money and attention play a role--two incomes, or one income plus one full-time caregiver vs the caregiver is the breadwinner?

[_MrStakhanovite]

Not really, I'm not accusing them of hiding their methods or data. The shortcomings of the study are in the article.

I'd reserve judgement till I saw the article and could evaluate the methodology with all the information.

I am saying that I would bet diamonds to doughnuts that if the data went against them the study would have been terminated.

that's a pretty serious charge you are leveling on UofC San Fran. What do you know about that institution and it's researchers that makes you think they would do something that serious?

[_Daniel2]

Now I'm even more sure of what I said. A little clicking and you find that virtually everyone supervising the study was a lesbian and that a great of those donating funds are foundations for Gay & Lesbian equality. I can't see these people turning around to their donors and saying the data was against them.

The study relied on volunteers (self-selection) and the various things they did not correct for makes me suspicious. I'd like to see data on the socioeconomic status of the family. All those sampled were from 3 metropoliton areas and I'm guessing that those who would choose to participate would be the more educated and more politically active of the sample. This almost always means wealthier which almost always leads to children with higher scores.

I'm not faulting the researchers, they probably did what they could but I don't think this is anything more then a morale victory. Hopefully a more comprehensive study is on the way. I also would like to see data about children raised by male homosexual couples.

Nehor's quote is a great example of Mormon hypocricy and the prevailing LDS double standard...

While growing up in the church, I cannot begin to describe how often I heard the concept that "If you want to know what Mormons believe, ask a Mormon!" And that one cannot rely on "Anti-Mormon" sources for accurate or true information. That seems to be an especially accurate stance for those engaging in Mormon apologetics—to question the source, motives, and methods of anyone who isn’t LDS.

Ironically, however, when it comes to understanding LGBT individuals or groups, Mormons immediately discredit the source if LGBT individuals are, themselves, involved. In short, they completely support, “Wanna know the truth about Mormons? Ask a Mormon!” but denounce “Wanna know about gays or lesbians? Don’t trust what they’d have to say—they’re only interested in advancing their own self-centered agenda.”

Neither extreme is reliable. Of course, while there is definitely merit in going to the source to find out truth, neither Mormons (as a group) NOR gays or lesbians (as a group) should be expected to give a fully comprehensive, utterly non-biased account of their own experiences, choices, and the ramifications thereof. Humans are both finite and self-interested beings, and as such, none of us will never be able to fully divorce ourselves from the inherent limitations of and blindness to our own personal biases.

That is why the fact that this (and any other study attempting to remove as much human bias ) is peer reviewed is so significant and important, notwithstanding Calculus Crusader’s flippant dismissal (when is the last time you saw any subject of significance regarding any given Mormon Apologetic claim published in a peer reviewed journal…?) A believe in Mormonism’s credibility depends on it appealing to it’s own authority and, when evidence clashes with doctrine, rationalizing away or rejecting data received from empirical, scientific methods.

Both that willful ignorance of science, and the hypocrisy of appeals to Mormon authority to ‘find out what it’s like to be Mormon,’ have elegantly been on display in this thread, thanks to Nehor and Calculus Crusader.

My view,
Darin

[_asbestosman]

Neither extreme is reliable. Of course, while there is definitely merit in going to the source to find out truth, neither Mormons (as a group) NOR gays or lesbians (as a group) should be expected to give a fully comprehensive, utterly non-biased account of their own experiences, choices, and the ramifications thereof. Humans are both finite and self-interested beings, and as such, none of us will never be able to fully divorce ourselves from the inherent limitations of and blindness to our own personal biases.

I thought Nehor was agreeing with you, yet you call him a hypocrite because of what other Latter Day Saints say. Is Nehor supposed to be held accountable for them, or is he obligated to mention everything he disagrees with from other Mormons in order to avoid the stain of hypocrisy?

Mormons don't always speak with one voice. Neither do homosexuals in my experience. Some gays and lesbians are more supportive of churches than others. Some are more politically conservative. Some believe in being promiscuous and others shun it.

[_Aristotle Smith]

I don't see a flaw in the study, what I do see is a flaw in over generalizing.

The study basically shows that longitudinally, children of lesbian couples tend to do just fine, in fact perhaps slightly better. The study does not show that same-sex parenting produces the same results for gay male couples. Note, I am NOT saying that gay male couples raise crappy children, just that this particular study cannot be generalized to conclude that.

But, I can think of two reasons why children of lesbian couples do just fine. First, it's statistically established that males tend to be more abusive towards children and abused kids don't do as well in a large number of measures. Since there are no males raising the kids, the likelihood of abuse has gone way down. Second, equal partner lesbianism has historically been more socially acceptable than has been equal partner male homosexuality. Some examples of this show what I am getting at. There are zero prohibitions against lesbianism in the Torah. Also, in the middle ages the penalty for male homosexuality tended to be death, while lesbianism was largely ignored by the law. Even ancient Athens wasn't really an exception to this. So lack of abuse and social acceptance means that the kids will tend to do just fine.