Would more people smoke pot if it were legal?

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_gramps
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Re: Would more people smoke pot if it were legal?

Post by _gramps »

The Dude wrote:

The east coast is different, at least in NYC. Although the state laws are fairly relaxed these days, who has it and who will share it is very hard to figure out. You can't buy from just anybody who walks up to you, because you will get ripped off every time. You have to know somebody who knows somebody... somebody you can trust... well somebody in my building smokes really good weed -- I can smell it -- but I can't figure out who. Man, it is so frustrating! I've been here two stinkin' years!


I had a similar problem when I was living in D.C. The Mexican compressed schwag was everywhere ($700/lb.; $150/oz.). Kind bud was nearly impossible to find in the two years I lived there.

I thought Europe would be a super easy place to find it, but it really depends on where you are. Where I am presently (Bavaria) is a lot like Salt Lake City. You better have a good connection. And, if you don't, it takes a while. But, it is everywhere. Of course, if you are in Berlin or Hamburg, it is a totally different story. You can pick it up at the hauptbahnhof or the main park. And it is pretty good quality and weight.

And a little safer than buying it in, let's say, Old Town, Mombasa, for example.
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_twinkie
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Re: Would more people smoke pot if it were legal?

Post by _twinkie »

Did more people smoke it, when it *was* legal?

I tried to find some facts on it, but only found this http://roomfordebate.blogs.nytimes.com/ ... tion-rise/

What would happen if the drug were legalized? The Dutch de facto legalization of sale through coffee shops is the closest available experience. The most striking observation is that marijuana use in that country is lower than in many other European countries and a lot lower than in the United States; 6 percent of 15- to 64-year-olds in Holland had used marijuana in the past year, compared to 11 percent in the U.S.
_MCB
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Re: Would more people smoke pot if it were legal?

Post by _MCB »

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/africa/10287075.stm


And a little safer than buying it in, let's say, Old Town, Mombasa, for example.
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_Some Schmo
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Re: Would more people smoke pot if it were legal?

Post by _Some Schmo »

beastie wrote:I really don't know the answer to the question, but I will say I think the question should be irrelevant in terms of the debate over legalization. I see absolutely no valid reason to criminalize marijuana when alcohol is legal. I also predict when the next generation takes over, it will be legalized. We may make some small steps in that direction in the meantime.

Oh, I completely agree. Even if the answer came back definitively that more people would smoke pot (and if this thread is any indication, I guess they would) that in no way signifies an argument for keeping it illegal.

We hear about people dying in alcohol related incidents all the time (including alcohol poisoning, to say nothing of vehicular manslaughters). Has anyone ever heard of a pot related death? It's impossible to OD on pot. The needed pizza to keep smoking it brings you down too quickly.
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_emilysmith
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Re: Would more people smoke pot if it were legal?

Post by _emilysmith »

The real world example in Holland provides clear evidence that legalization does NOT create more users. There are more habitual marijuana smokers per capita in the UK, California, and New Zealand where cannabis is still illegal.

The best reason to legalize marijuana, or any other drug, is to take the power from violent organized crime in one swoop. Criminals also ensure that no drug (except marijuana) is pure because baby laxative and other substances are much cheaper than the drugs themselves. Drug users, particularly addicts, have mental health issues and should not be treated like criminals. Throwing them in jail and forcing people to interact with the criminal element in order to obtain drugs has far more negative societal repercussions than drug use, alone.

Marijuana is, basically, harmless. It is literally impossible to overdose on, and it has not been reliably linked to any mental health problems. The two studies that linked marijuana use to schizophrenia failed to correct for alcohol abuse, poverty, or residence in a dense urban environment, which all are very significant factors.

Additionally, no study has ever tried to determine whether marijuana users with mental health problems already had issues and were merely seeking to self medicate. Considering how much the US government has tried to prove how harmful the drug is, the empirical evidence is still remarkably silent.

Sure, there are many irresponsible people who appear lazy as a result of marijuana use, but that doesn't account for all of the extremely successful people who are habitual users. To acknowledge all of the stoners who sit on their couch and do nothing while ignoring the people with advanced degrees who use regularly is an inherently flawed point of view.

Marijuana is extremely effective in treating IBS. It relaxes the digestive system and was used in ancient history merely to prevent gas. Insomnia is treated better by marijuana than most sleeping pills and does not carry the same risks of addiction. Obviously, glaucoma and other problems can be treated by marijuana, as well.

Recently, it has been shown that marijuana has ingredients that cause autophagy in some types of cancer cells. It has also been suggested through studies that THC (which attaches to anandamide receptors in the human brain) promotes neurogenesis in some area of the brain. Where other drugs cause damage to neural networks, THC promotes the growth of new cells.

Ultimately, more deaths are caused my cigarettes, alcohol, and fast food than anything else. The number of deaths caused by illicit drugs doesn't even make the chart. Prescription medications cause far more deaths than heroin or cocaine. Even aspirin is more deadly than heroin. Deaths from marijuana? 0

If we, as a society, are going to allow people to kill themselves (and others in some instances) with cheeseburgers, alcohol and cigarettes, then we should certainly allow them the liberty to use a safe substance in the privacy of their own homes.

The status of marijuana has been used as a means to oppress the Mexicans and then the Hippies. Drug legislation, in general, assures that most urban environments can be raided at any time by the police. The rights of the individual can be ignored by the police as soon as they smell a joint.

It is not a war on drugs. It is a war on personal freedom.
_Nimrod
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Re: Would more people smoke pot if it were legal?

Post by _Nimrod »

Spot on analysis, emilysmith. It's amazing how simple this issue gets when evidence is introduced into the equation.
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_The Dude
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Re: Would more people smoke pot if it were legal?

Post by _The Dude »

emilysmith wrote:The real world example in Holland provides clear evidence that legalization does NOT create more users. There are more habitual marijuana smokers per capita in the UK, California, and New Zealand where cannabis is still illegal.


Begging the question of what the hell is wrong with the Dutch!

The best reason to legalize marijuana, or any other drug, is to take the power from violent organized crime in one swoop. Criminals also ensure that no drug (except marijuana) is pure because baby laxative and other substances are much cheaper than the drugs themselves. Drug users, particularly addicts, have mental health issues and should not be treated like criminals. Throwing them in jail and forcing people to interact with the criminal element in order to obtain drugs has far more negative societal repercussions than drug use, alone.


Absolutely 100% agree.

Marijuana is, basically, harmless.


Smoking anything can be bad for your throat and lungs, but it's nothing like a pack-a-day cigarette habit. Especially if you smoke good, strong weed where a hit is like one or two puffs. So aside from inexperienced users getting in car accidents and making bad decisions, I agree that marijuana is pretty safe in the short term.

It is literally impossible to overdose on, and it has not been reliably linked to any mental health problems. The two studies that linked marijuana use to schizophrenia failed to correct for alcohol abuse, poverty, or residence in a dense urban environment, which all are very significant factors.

Additionally, no study has ever tried to determine whether marijuana users with mental health problems already had issues and were merely seeking to self medicate. Considering how much the US government has tried to prove how harmful the drug is, the empirical evidence is still remarkably silent.


Good points. Yet people take for granted that it does all those bad things.

Sure, there are many irresponsible people who appear lazy as a result of marijuana use, but that doesn't account for all of the extremely successful people who are habitual users. To acknowledge all of the stoners who sit on their couch and do nothing while ignoring the people with advanced degrees who use regularly is an inherently flawed point of view.


Sure, like me. But I wouldn't want my kids doing it until they mature into responsible adults. I feel like it's something I have earned the right to, but they haven't, and it might seriously get in the way of their learning and mental/emotional maturation. Plus, it does make you do stupid things, you can't deny that, and teenagers don't need to enhance their natural talents toward irresponsible risk taking.

Marijuana is extremely effective in treating IBS. It relaxes the digestive system and was used in ancient history merely to prevent gas. Insomnia is treated better by marijuana than most sleeping pills and does not carry the same risks of addiction. Obviously, glaucoma and other problems can be treated by marijuana, as well.

Recently, it has been shown that marijuana has ingredients that cause autophagy in some types of cancer cells. It has also been suggested through studies that THC (which attaches to anandamide receptors in the human brain) promotes neurogenesis in some area of the brain. Where other drugs cause damage to neural networks, THC promotes the growth of new cells.


I guess there's no harm in thinking those things are so. I'm pretty skeptical of the significance of all of that hype.

Ultimately, more deaths are caused my cigarettes, alcohol, and fast food than anything else. The number of deaths caused by illicit drugs doesn't even make the chart. Prescription medications cause far more deaths than heroin or cocaine. Even aspirin is more deadly than heroin. Deaths from marijuana? 0

If we, as a society, are going to allow people to kill themselves (and others in some instances) with cheeseburgers, alcohol and cigarettes, then we should certainly allow them the liberty to use a safe substance in the privacy of their own homes.

The status of marijuana has been used as a means to oppress the Mexicans and then the Hippies. Drug legislation, in general, assures that most urban environments can be raided at any time by the police. The rights of the individual can be ignored by the police as soon as they smell a joint.

It is not a war on drugs. It is a war on personal freedom.


Your social arguments are better than the medical ones.
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_MrStakhanovite
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Re: Would more people smoke pot if it were legal?

Post by _MrStakhanovite »

I wouldn't smoke it if it was legal and easy to obtain. I have personal ethical issues against it, outside civil law.
_Tchild
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Re: Would more people smoke pot if it were legal?

Post by _Tchild »

MrStakhanovite wrote:I wouldn't smoke it if it was legal and easy to obtain. I have personal ethical issues against it, outside civil law.

That is interesting. I wonder if you would feel comfortable elaborating. Not to critique, but just curious to know why.
_MrStakhanovite
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Re: Would more people smoke pot if it were legal?

Post by _MrStakhanovite »

Tchild wrote:
MrStakhanovite wrote:I wouldn't smoke it if it was legal and easy to obtain. I have personal ethical issues against it, outside civil law.

That is interesting. I wonder if you would feel comfortable elaborating. Not to critique, but just curious to know why.

Sure,

In my personal world view, I place a very high value on clear thinking. To purposefully cloud one's judgement and impair those functions are counter productive to the kind of life I want to live. I'm at a period in my life where I don't have to work and just focus all my energy on education and I spend a great deal of time learning on how to think clearly. I see logic/reasoning as forms of liberation and cultivating personal dignity. Smoking some pot to chill just strikes me as not conducive to that pursuit.
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