The Website that Decimated Oxygenadam's Testimony

[_oxygenadam]

[Wall of Text]

I found no instances of the word "Kolob" in your rant. Perhaps there was a point to it that I missed?

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Since the claims of virtually any religion are non-falsifiable, all you've managed to do here is express your opinion. However, you've taken the extra (and arrogant) step of expressing that opinion as if you were the ultimate purveyor of fact.

Here's my opinion - you are not the ultimate purveyor of fact and your opinion is no more valuable than mine.

Hello Mr. Sethpayne,

Here the above posted quote is another answer to your CFR. You can see, quite plainly in fact, how Mormonism has robbed Mr. Ttribe of any semblance of common sense or critical thinking.

Very Respectfully,

Doctor CamNC4Me

[_oxygenadam]

Wow. You're opposed to people advocating against religious groups, and invoke the constitution in some odd manner, but you're ready to shut them down if they hurt people?

Wow. Just wow.

I am opposed to people like you taking it upon themselves to judge other people and other groups who are doing no harm to anyone by merely existing.

If the group is shown to do harm, then everything should be done to shut them down.

My opinion is that your motivation in this is that you think anti-mormonism is immoral, but to avoid the inevitable charge of hypocrisy, you've created a ridiculous generalization that you're now being forced to take extreme measures to defend.

Perhaps it's just time to rethink your position.

Again, there is no hypocrisy. Unless you can point out the books I referred to earlier in the thread, your position has no merit.

Wow. Just wow.

[_ttribe]

Regarding OA's argument with respect to the "immorality" of anti-mormonism - while it might have been argued a little more eloquently, I don't believe OA is arguing that all criticisms of the Church or its beliefs are inherently immoral (he can correct me if I am wrong). However, I think he is arguing (and I agree with him) that any system, organization, publication, etc. which has the effect of marginalizing, falsely stereotyping, dehumanizing, and segregating whole portions of the population based on their beliefs, etc. are likely engaging in an immoral act meant to cause harm to any adherents or members of said group.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

[Wall of Text]

I found no instances of the word "Kolob" in your rant. Perhaps there was a point to it that I missed?

Hello Mr. Oxygenadam,

Sir, twas not my rant, but the rantings and ravings of your leaders. That aside, I posted a link to the Book of Abraham to answer your denial in reference to Kolob. The quoted rantings and ravings of your leaders were to demonstrate to you that your church has indeed taught that Mr. Eloheim has sex in order to procreate.

Very Respectfully,

Doctor CamNC4Me

[_ttribe]

Since the claims of virtually any religion are non-falsifiable, all you've managed to do here is express your opinion. However, you've taken the extra (and arrogant) step of expressing that opinion as if you were the ultimate purveyor of fact.

Here's my opinion - you are not the ultimate purveyor of fact and your opinion is no more valuable than mine.

Hello Mr. Sethpayne,

Here the above posted quote is another answer to your CFR. You can see, quite plainly in fact, how Mormonism has robbed Mr. Ttribe of any semblance of common sense or critical thinking.

Very Respectfully,

Doctor CamNC4Me

If coming over to your way of viewing the world carries with it the consequence of becoming a caustic jerk incapable of civil discourse, I think I will choose my foggy world of no common sense, etc.

[_Chap]

OxygenAdam, your religion features an entirely manmade theology that is entirely a figment of the mind of man, from top to bottom. Your religion has many adherents who are well-intentioned, and spend a lot of time and effort trying to make their religion beneficial to people, for some definition of "beneficial" which I accept is honestly and in good faith formulated (however misguided in some respects). As religious systems go, it is more egregiously intrusive and destructive than some, and much milder and beneficial than others.

I will be clear as day here: it's all manmade, from A to Z. There is no Elohim, no Kolob, and you will not ever become a deity over your own universe. The Book of Mormon is a work of fiction, and the stories contained in that book did not really happen. Joseph Smith's taking of dozens of fake extra wives was done on his own initiative - no angel, flaming sword or not, ever commanded him to do it in the name of God, who almost certainly doesn't actually exist anyway.

Are you offended yet? Well, get used to it.

Since the claims of virtually any religion are non-falsifiable, all you've managed to do here is express your opinion. However, you've taken the extra (and arrogant) step of expressing that opinion as if you were the ultimate purveyor of fact.

Here's my opinion - you are not the ultimate purveyor of fact and your opinion is no more valuable than mine.

Not in itself, of course (though I know which of the two opinion most thoughtful people are likely to find better grounded).

You have however missed the point that Sethbag (whose final sentence, omitted by you, I have restored) is clearly making the implicit claim that he has a perfect right to criticize any religion he wants, whether you or oxygenadam like it or not. He would have the same right if he printed what he has said, and distributed it to passers-by in the streets of Provo. To call him immoral for exercising this right (as oxygenadam would apparently do) is simply bizarre.

[_ttribe]

Not in itself, of course (though I know which of the two opinion most thoughtful people are likely to find better grounded).

Nice value judgment.

You have however missed the point that Sethbag (whose final sentence, omitted by you, I have restored) is clearly making the implicit claim that he has a perfect right to criticize any religion he wants, whether you or oxygenadam like it or not. He would have the same right if he printed what he has said, and distributed it to passers-by in the streets of Provo. To call him immoral for exercising this right (as oxygenadam would apparently do) is simply bizarre.

I didn't "miss the point" at all and, given my in real life interactions with Sethbag, he should know exactly why I said what I did to him. Perhaps you'll wait for him to respond instead of butting in?

[_beastie]

I am opposed to people like you taking it upon themselves to judge other people and other groups who are doing no harm to anyone by merely existing.

If the group is shown to do harm, then everything should be done to shut them down.

Again. You are invoking the constitution to condemn "people like me" (yeah, I thought you were likely including criticizing faiths on the internet in your judgment) and yet you're advocating "shutting down" faiths that hurt people.

Determining which faiths really do harm is part of the whole problem. There are people who believe Mormonism hurts people, and under your theory, should be shut down. Yet instead of advocating for someone - I guess the government - to shut Mormonism down, they're simply sharing their opinions about the evils or problems of Mormonism. And yet to you that is the greater evil.

[_Chap]

Not in itself, of course (though I know which of the two opinion most thoughtful people are likely to find better grounded).

Nice value judgment.

A value judgment is a judgment on some moral matter such as 'divorce is wrong, save in the case of adultery'.

It is not a value judgment to say that most thoughtful people (in the sense of people who try to give serious attention to the grounds for believing or disbelieving in a proposition put to them) would be likely to agree with Sethbag that the distinctive claims of the CoJCoLDS are probably fictional. It is a judgment of fact. Has it not been your experience (on your mission, perhaps?) that after an hour or so of listening to an account of the religion of the CoJCoLDS, most people who are still paying attention have no interest in hearing more?

You have however missed the point that Sethbag (whose final sentence, omitted by you, I have restored) is clearly making the implicit claim that he has a perfect right to criticize any religion he wants, whether you or oxygenadam like it or not. He would have the same right if he printed what he has said, and distributed it to passers-by in the streets of Provo. To call him immoral for exercising this right (as oxygenadam would apparently do) is simply bizarre.

I didn't "miss the point" at all and given my in real life interactions with Sethbag, he should know exactly why I said what I did to him. Perhaps you'll wait for him to respond instead of butting in?

If you want a private conversation with Sethbag, why not do it via PMs? or indeed in real life? On a message board, anyone has a perfect right to comment.

So deal with it.