DiscussMormonism.com

oxygenadam wrote: Perhaps he is, yet the BYU scholars "mop the floor" with his arguments both in writing, and on radio shows.

I never got the sense of that, but I've only listened to one of his radio engagements when he was sorta tag-teamed by Bill Hamblin and DCP. On some issues like Grace and Justification he does really well, but I know he got tied up into knots over the the council of Gods issue in Psalms.

I think James has changed his tone and style now, so I'm probably seeing the calmed down and more refined James then when he did his Mormon engagements back in the 90s.

oxygenadam wrote: This, to me, shows great credibility for the LDS faith.

What does? Watching a debate?

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Post Script- Perhaps Mr. Oxygenadam would like to review some of the tapir-Mopologetica in order to understand how one's delusion can lead to unrealistic worldviews...

You are taking this out of context. Dr. Peterson was merely exploring one of Heisenberg's corollaries of uncertainty, which postulated the existence of rather large tapirs capable of pulling chariots. To have done otherwise in ignoring this possibility, would have constituted academic negligence.

Hello,

Members of the Mormon church can enter into eternal polygamous marriages. The Mormon church actively fought against Proposition 8. The Mormon church makes its homosexual members feel sinful. The Mormon church makes its youth feel guilty about masturbation, in addition to making them feel like Mr. Eloheim can see everything said youth do.

And yet, I am the bigot.

Mr. Bradley, you Sir, are as they say, "Up in the night." Oh my.

Very Respectfully,

Doctor CamNC4Me

oxygenadam wrote:The distinction is very simple, Scratch, and I will not explain it to you again.

1) The one single event of writing that is critical of another faith that you seem to have dug up was an LDS scholar posting on an informal message board, stating his opinion. He then added to his opinion, stating that he found the beginnings of said religion to be very noble, and its author very intelligent and wise.

It's not the only instance. Dr. Peterson was also caught posting to a Jewish blog, saying, "Jews have few friends in the world." Plus, there is a journal entry demonstrating that he mocked the Jewish wedding ceremony. And there is Dr. Hamblin's insanely anti-semetic rant that was posted to the FAIRblog. Additionally, you've been given examples (such as Elder McConkie's Mormon Doctrice, plus passages from canonical LDS texts) that show "anti-" sentiment in one form or another. Finally, it would be quite easy to cite multiple essays in the FARMS Review that attack other Christians or other Latter-day Saints. (Cf., for example, Shirley Ricks's needless attack on the "Fun for Family Night" game, or Louis Midgley's "Old Cash Nexus" piece.)

Which of these, I'm wondering, is immoral, per your logic?

2) Everyone, the apologists, the anti-Mormons, DCP, Doctor Scratch... everyone is entitled to their opinion, and to tell their opinion to other people.

This totally undercuts your argument, since one could characterize any of James White & et al.'s writings as mere "opinion." What you're doing is a variation on the "that's not official doctrine" Mopologetic two-step.

3) "Dr." James white, who has to claim a false degree to make himself sound credible, is a known anti-Mormon pamphleteer, protester, and author. He is entitled to his opinion, and he is entitled to state his opinion to other people. His actions become immoral when he dedicates an entire section of his website to hating, defaming, and slandering the LDS faith; when he sets up his little booth outside of General Conference to try to persuade Mormons that their religion is false; when he participates in debates with LDS scholars, then posts edited versions that make it look like he won on his website; when he publishes hate books like "is the Mormon by Brother." The same is true for all the other hate-istries, and individual anti-Mormons.

Pretty much everything you're describing has been done by the Mopologists in one form or another, yet you are unwilling or incapable of criticizing them for it. Your hypocrisy is staggering.

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Hello,

Members of the Mormon church can enter into eternal polygamous marriages. The Mormon church actively fought against Proposition 8. The Mormon church makes its homosexual members feel sinful. The Mormon church makes its youth feel guilty about masturbation, in addition to making them feel like Mr. Eloheim can see everything said youth do.

And yet, I am the bigot.

Mr. Bradley, you Sir, are as they say, "Up in the night." Oh my.

Very Respectfully,

Doctor CamNC4Me

How arrogant you must be, to assert that there is no God, and to believe that you hold the necessary knowledge to make such an assertion. Do you honestly believe that you hold all possible knowledge from all time, and across all locations, because you would have to in order to honestly claim that there is no God.

So, who is more delusional, you who believes he is all knowing, and the measure of all things, or we churchmen?

It is TBM LDS who are

more delusional, .. who believe they are all knowing, and the measure of all things,

I am not an atheist, I belong to a mainstream religion. In fact the largest Christian church in the world. I, personally, know painfully little. How about you?

Doctor Scratch wrote:It's not the only instance. Dr. Peterson was also caught posting to a Jewish blog, saying, "Jews have few friends in the world." Plus, there is a journal entry demonstrating that he mocked the Jewish wedding ceremony. And there is Dr. Hamblin's insanely anti-semetic rant that was posted to the FAIRblog. Additionally, you've been given examples (such as Elder McConkie's Mormon Doctrice, plus passages from canonical LDS texts) that show "anti-" sentiment in one form or another. Finally, it would be quite easy to cite multiple essays in the FARMS Review that attack other Christians or other Latter-day Saints. (Cf., for example, Shirley Ricks's needless attack on the "Fun for Family Night" game, or Louis Midgley's "Old Cash Nexus" piece.)

"Jews have few friends in the world?" Wow, you certainly are sinking to new, never before seen, lows in order to make your absurd point. Do you honestly believe someone posting on a blog that "Jews have few friends in the world" is the same as publishing anti-Mormon books, like

The Changing World of Mormonism: A Behind-the-Scenes Look at Changes in Mormon Doctrine and Practice

The Counterfeit Gospel of Mormonism: The Great Divide Between Mormonism and Christianity

Mormonism, magic and Masonry

Mormonism--shadow or reality?

The Maze of Mormonism

Is the Mormon My Brother?: Discerning the Differences Between Mormonism and Christianity

The God Makers: A Shocking Expose of What the Mormon Church Really Believes

And there is Dr. Hamblin's insanely anti-semetic rant that was posted to the FAIRblog.

Why do you keep bringing this up? He was making a post that was similar to what he read on the RfM boards. Give it up, its not his view at all.

This totally undercuts your argument, since one could characterize any of James White & et al.'s writings as mere "opinion." What you're doing is a variation on the "that's not official doctrine" Mopologetic two-step.

No. Protesting General Conference with hate signs, setting up hate-istry booths to pamphlet Conference goers, waving LDS sacred garments around on pigpoles is most certainly not opinion. Please tell me where your beloved DCP ever did any of these things to another faith group.

Pretty much everything you're describing has been done by the Mopologists in one form or another, yet you are unwilling or incapable of criticizing them for it. Your hypocrisy is staggering.

Your lack of education and understanding of basic principles is "staggering" Doctor Scratch. Please get a real argument.

oxygenadam wrote:How arrogant you must be, to assert that there is no God, and to believe that you hold the necessary knowledge to make such an assertion. Do you honestly believe that you hold all possible knowledge from all time, and across all locations, because you would have to in order to honestly claim that there is no God.

So, who is more delusional, you who believes he is all knowing, and the measure of all things, or we churchmen?

Hello Sir,

Oh my. No need to get one's dander up, Sir. I am completely open to the idea of a god-like being existing, but first I suppose we must concur what we consider "a god" to be, no? Is the Universe, nay, All of Existence "God"? Or is a man-god who lives on a planet night unto Kolob within the confines of eternal polygamous marriages "God"?

I can assert with certainty that your particular brand of god is no more real than Zeus, Allah, or Tezcatlipoca. Until your god, Zeus, Allah, or Tezcatlipoca arrives and declares himself I am afraid my proving a negative stands, and the burden of proof is in your court, Sir.

Very Respectfully,

Doctor CamNC4Me

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Hello Sir,

Oh my. No need to get one's dander up, Sir. I am completely open to the idea of a god-like being existing, but first I suppose we must concur what we consider "a god" to be, no? Is the Universe, nay, All of Existence "God"? Or is a man-god who lives on a planet night unto Kolob within the confines of eternal polygamous marriages "God"?

I can assert with certainty that your particular brand of god is no more real than Zeus, Allah, or Tezcatlipoca. Until your god, Zeus, Allah, or Tezcatlipoca arrives and declares himself I am afraid my proving a negative stands, and the burden of proof is in your court, Sir.

Very Respectfully,

Doctor CamNC4Me

And are you open to the idea that Zeus, Apollo, Poisedon, Jupiter, and the Judeo-Christian God are simply different names for the same being?

oxygenadam wrote:
And are you open to the idea that Zeus, Apollo, Poisedon, Jupiter, and the Judeo-Christian God are simply different names for the same being?

Let's not forget Manitou and the Bob.