Calculus Crusader wrote:And surely the Aeneid is but a garbled remembrance of the Book of Mormon!
Did you hack my computer? No, seriously.
Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
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_Kishkumen
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Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
Did you hack my computer? No, seriously.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
Kishkumen wrote:Calculus Crusader wrote:And surely the Aeneid is but a garbled remembrance of the Book of Mormon!
Did you hack my computer? No, seriously.
No, duh. I think CC was in my mind, recently...
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
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_Kishkumen
- _Emeritus
- Posts: 21373
- Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm
Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
Blixa wrote:No, duh. I think CC was in my mind, recently...
Great minds and all that. One thing, though: the Aeneid influenced the Book of Mormon. But then the great Jaredite epic stands behind all great epics, influencing them all.
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
One of the overlooked and yet compelling parallels between the Book of Mormon and ancient history is the story of the wicked priests of King Noah kidnapping the daughters of the Lamanites. This incident is indeed strongly corroborated by the literature of ancient Italy.
For those not familiar with this Book of Mormon episode and how it is further proof of the Book of Mormon's ancient Italian origins, allow me to quote Alan Goff of the Maxwell Institute:
A minor story in the Book of Mormon provides an example of how complex the task of reading the book can be. It also illustrates how much richer our understanding can be when we remember that the Book of Mormon is an ancient record with connections to other ancient records, particularly the Old Testament. In the book of Mosiah, a band of wicked priests hid in the wilderness and kidnapped some young women to be their wives (see 20:1-5). This story can be read as an adventure tale. If looked at carefully, however, it shows the kind of connections between the Book of Mormon and the Old Testament that demonstrate that the Book of Mormon is an ancient book.
The story of kidnapping by the wicked priests is a minor part of the record of the people of Zeniff. When King Noah, ruler over the Zeniffites, rejected the prophet Abinadi's message and had him killed, the priest Alma and his followers separated from the rest of the people. Soon thereafter, the Lamanites attacked the people of Zeniff. As they fled from the Lamanites, King Noah commanded them to abandon their families. Instead, they executed Noah and attempted to kill his priests (see Mosiah 17-19). These priests escaped into the wilderness, led by Amulon, one of their number, and later kidnapped some daughters of the Lamanites to be their wives. Angered by the kidnapping and assuming the Zeniffites were guilty, the Lamanites attacked them. Peace was restored when the Lamanites learned who the real kidnappers were (see Mosiah 20).
To flesh out the complexity and richness of the Book of Mormon that Brother Goff correctly observes, let us recall a vignette from ancient Roman literature: the story of the rape of the Sabine women.
The Rape of the Sabine Women is an episode in the legendary history of Rome in which the first generation of Roman men acquired wives for themselves from the neighboring Sabine families. The English word "rape" is a conventional translation of Latin raptio, which in this context means abduction rather than its prevalent modern meaning of sexual violation.........The Rape is supposed to have occurred in the early history of Rome, shortly after its founding by Romulus and his mostly male followers. Seeking wives in order to found families, the Romans negotiated unsuccessfully with the Sabines, who populated the area. Fearing the emergence of a rival society, the Sabines refused to allow their women to marry the Romans; consequently, the Romans planned to abduct Sabine women. Romulus devised a festival of Neptune Equester and proclaimed the festival amongst Rome's neighbours. According to Livy, many people from Rome's neighbours attended, including folk from the Caeninenses, Crustumini, and Antemnates, and many of the Sabines. At the festival Romulus gave a signal, at which the Romans grabbed the Sabine women and fought off the Sabine men. The indignant abductees were soon implored by Romulus to accept Roman husbands.
Livy is clear that no sexual assault took place. On the contrary, Romulus offered them free choice and promised civic and property rights to women. According to Livy he spoke to them each in person, "and pointed out to them that it was all owing to the pride of their parents in denying the right of intermarriage to their neighbours. They would live in honourable wedlock, and share all their property and civil rights, and — dearest of all to human nature — would be the mothers of free men."
The above shows a particularly compelling parallel, suggesting that the Book of Mormon is indeed an ancient Italian document.
The rape of the Sabine women led to hostilities between the Sabines and the Romans. These hostilities were placated when the Sabine women went out to intervene between the combatants and stirred them to compassion. In a strikingly similar parallel, the Lamanites sought to wage war against the people of King Limhi in retaliation for the rape (in the sense described above) of the Lamanite women. And yet the hostilities are brought to an end when Limhi appeals to the compassion of the Lamanites.
22 And now let us pacify the king, and we fulfil the oath which we have made unto him; for it is better that we should be in bondage than that we should lose our lives; therefore, let us put a stop to the shedding of so much blood.
23 And now Limhi told the king all the things concerning his father, and the priests that had fled into the wilderness, and attributed the carrying away of their daughters to them.
24 And it came to pass that the king was pacified towards his people; and he said unto them: Let us go forth to meet my people, without arms; and I swear unto you with an oath that my people shall not slay thy people.
25 And it came to pass that they followed the king, and went forth without arms to meet the Lamanites. And it came to pass that they did meet the Lamanites; and the king of the Lamanites did bow himself down before them, and did plead in behalf of the people of Limhi.
26 And when the Lamanites saw the people of Limhi, that they were without arms, they had compassion on them and were pacified towards them, and returned with their king in peace to their own land.
Mosiah 20:22-26
Notice that in the story of the Sabine women, the Sabines and the Romans agree to form a single kingdom with the Sabine king and Romulus ruling jointly---perfectly paralleling how the Lamanites ruled over the people of Limhi and Limhi continued to be the king over his people.
It is unlikely that an uneducated Yankee farm boy could have made such a lucky guess about the powerful similarities between the literature of ancient Rome and the record of the Nephites. We must conclude that this is yet another bull's eye for the Book of Mormon showing itself to be a scripture from the ancient Italian peninsula.
For those not familiar with this Book of Mormon episode and how it is further proof of the Book of Mormon's ancient Italian origins, allow me to quote Alan Goff of the Maxwell Institute:
A minor story in the Book of Mormon provides an example of how complex the task of reading the book can be. It also illustrates how much richer our understanding can be when we remember that the Book of Mormon is an ancient record with connections to other ancient records, particularly the Old Testament. In the book of Mosiah, a band of wicked priests hid in the wilderness and kidnapped some young women to be their wives (see 20:1-5). This story can be read as an adventure tale. If looked at carefully, however, it shows the kind of connections between the Book of Mormon and the Old Testament that demonstrate that the Book of Mormon is an ancient book.
The story of kidnapping by the wicked priests is a minor part of the record of the people of Zeniff. When King Noah, ruler over the Zeniffites, rejected the prophet Abinadi's message and had him killed, the priest Alma and his followers separated from the rest of the people. Soon thereafter, the Lamanites attacked the people of Zeniff. As they fled from the Lamanites, King Noah commanded them to abandon their families. Instead, they executed Noah and attempted to kill his priests (see Mosiah 17-19). These priests escaped into the wilderness, led by Amulon, one of their number, and later kidnapped some daughters of the Lamanites to be their wives. Angered by the kidnapping and assuming the Zeniffites were guilty, the Lamanites attacked them. Peace was restored when the Lamanites learned who the real kidnappers were (see Mosiah 20).
To flesh out the complexity and richness of the Book of Mormon that Brother Goff correctly observes, let us recall a vignette from ancient Roman literature: the story of the rape of the Sabine women.
The Rape of the Sabine Women is an episode in the legendary history of Rome in which the first generation of Roman men acquired wives for themselves from the neighboring Sabine families. The English word "rape" is a conventional translation of Latin raptio, which in this context means abduction rather than its prevalent modern meaning of sexual violation.........The Rape is supposed to have occurred in the early history of Rome, shortly after its founding by Romulus and his mostly male followers. Seeking wives in order to found families, the Romans negotiated unsuccessfully with the Sabines, who populated the area. Fearing the emergence of a rival society, the Sabines refused to allow their women to marry the Romans; consequently, the Romans planned to abduct Sabine women. Romulus devised a festival of Neptune Equester and proclaimed the festival amongst Rome's neighbours. According to Livy, many people from Rome's neighbours attended, including folk from the Caeninenses, Crustumini, and Antemnates, and many of the Sabines. At the festival Romulus gave a signal, at which the Romans grabbed the Sabine women and fought off the Sabine men. The indignant abductees were soon implored by Romulus to accept Roman husbands.
Livy is clear that no sexual assault took place. On the contrary, Romulus offered them free choice and promised civic and property rights to women. According to Livy he spoke to them each in person, "and pointed out to them that it was all owing to the pride of their parents in denying the right of intermarriage to their neighbours. They would live in honourable wedlock, and share all their property and civil rights, and — dearest of all to human nature — would be the mothers of free men."
The above shows a particularly compelling parallel, suggesting that the Book of Mormon is indeed an ancient Italian document.
The rape of the Sabine women led to hostilities between the Sabines and the Romans. These hostilities were placated when the Sabine women went out to intervene between the combatants and stirred them to compassion. In a strikingly similar parallel, the Lamanites sought to wage war against the people of King Limhi in retaliation for the rape (in the sense described above) of the Lamanite women. And yet the hostilities are brought to an end when Limhi appeals to the compassion of the Lamanites.
22 And now let us pacify the king, and we fulfil the oath which we have made unto him; for it is better that we should be in bondage than that we should lose our lives; therefore, let us put a stop to the shedding of so much blood.
23 And now Limhi told the king all the things concerning his father, and the priests that had fled into the wilderness, and attributed the carrying away of their daughters to them.
24 And it came to pass that the king was pacified towards his people; and he said unto them: Let us go forth to meet my people, without arms; and I swear unto you with an oath that my people shall not slay thy people.
25 And it came to pass that they followed the king, and went forth without arms to meet the Lamanites. And it came to pass that they did meet the Lamanites; and the king of the Lamanites did bow himself down before them, and did plead in behalf of the people of Limhi.
26 And when the Lamanites saw the people of Limhi, that they were without arms, they had compassion on them and were pacified towards them, and returned with their king in peace to their own land.
Mosiah 20:22-26
Notice that in the story of the Sabine women, the Sabines and the Romans agree to form a single kingdom with the Sabine king and Romulus ruling jointly---perfectly paralleling how the Lamanites ruled over the people of Limhi and Limhi continued to be the king over his people.
It is unlikely that an uneducated Yankee farm boy could have made such a lucky guess about the powerful similarities between the literature of ancient Rome and the record of the Nephites. We must conclude that this is yet another bull's eye for the Book of Mormon showing itself to be a scripture from the ancient Italian peninsula.
Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
That's hilarious. And really, if the Book of Mormon were true, you'd expect that number of bull's eyes for either North, Central or South America. It would just fall into place like that. I'm sure early members certainly expected that this would be the case. Instead, we have our current threadbare mopologetics that makes very sad, desperate claims, such as a stick with sharp rocks attached to it is a sword. Seriously.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
Good thinking to take a look at this. If Spalding used an Italian template for most of the book, then maybe he also used a Greek template for Ether.
Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm
Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
Does it bother you true believers that the Italian Geography Theory fits the Book of Mormon better than anything your apologists have come up with so far?
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
This reminds me that I have to fix my comparing pictures of ancient Rome to Frieberg's Book of Mormon paintings. Some of this links ended up not working.
Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
Darth J wrote:This reminds me that I have to fix my comparing pictures of ancient Rome to Frieberg's Book of Mormon paintings. Some of this links ended up not working.
I think you should work to publish this theory somewhere. It blows all the ones based on North or South American geography out of the water!
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
Re: Ancient Italy: The true Book of Mormon location
On the first page of this thread, I said:
"Arnold Friberg, who was commissioned by the Church to paint scenes from the Book of Mormon, seems to have clearly understood the compelling parallels between the Book of Mormon and ancient Italy."
Here is a better visual on that:
And as I had previously mentioned about this last image:
Note how Mormon and Moroni are shown with red cloaks, which were an important part of a Roman soldier's equipment:
This item of clothing kept the legionary warm in colder climates and helped keep the rain off during inclement weather. Its red color was also probably intended to identify him as a Roman in the dust and confusion of battle and inspire fear into the hearts of his enemies. The sight of a massive red juggurnaut headed relentlessly in their direction must have clamped a cold claw of fear around the heart of many defenders of rebellious cities and sapped their will to fight.
"Arnold Friberg, who was commissioned by the Church to paint scenes from the Book of Mormon, seems to have clearly understood the compelling parallels between the Book of Mormon and ancient Italy."
Here is a better visual on that:
And as I had previously mentioned about this last image:
Note how Mormon and Moroni are shown with red cloaks, which were an important part of a Roman soldier's equipment:
This item of clothing kept the legionary warm in colder climates and helped keep the rain off during inclement weather. Its red color was also probably intended to identify him as a Roman in the dust and confusion of battle and inspire fear into the hearts of his enemies. The sight of a massive red juggurnaut headed relentlessly in their direction must have clamped a cold claw of fear around the heart of many defenders of rebellious cities and sapped their will to fight.