DiscussMormonism.com

Joseph wrote:
Even giant phallic symbols age, lose strength and rigidity.


That particular observation is what got me banned from Z.
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When you look at the tall, gleaming white shaft with two oblong balls at the bottom the phallic symbolism is difficult to miss. All it really needs is a 'dancing waters' geyser show on the roof to complete the deal.

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Joseph Smith CAINs wrote "It is amazing how many folks just blindly nod their head and believe what some random poster claims."

and then he expects us to believe what he claims.
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I walked past the Conference Center recently, and I noticed that virtually every granite tile on the outside of the building has cracked and been patched. A friend (who is a structural engineer) told me that this was a result of cutting corners and doing things in a hurry, such that the building doesn't handle heat and cold as well as it should, hence the buckling of the surface tiles.

The conference center is one of the really ButtUgly buildings in LDS land. Looks like it came from Albert Speer and his architectural plans for Berlin after Germany won the war.
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Tchild wrote:
Basically, the contractor is related to a senior general authority, has a fixed and healthy profit margin, and has made a mint.
Which GA?

Yes, which GA. Would be nice to know the Truth of the matter.
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Once again Joseph Smith CAINs: "Such foaming at the mouth over LDS Church dirt."

If it is true and the information is substantially correce, it isn't dirt. The hiding it from the members who give the money to build the penispalace and Temples is dirty. Hiding overruns, shoddy workmanship and possible fraud is dirty. Be open. Account for the funds. Let those who really pay for things know where their money goes. That is the honest thing to do.
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"Buildings get old, they wear out, they get razed and rebuilt every day. Only a pack of fools would think OUR building is exempt from the wear and tear of daily life, and that includes shoddy workmanship, cheap materials, and stupid decisions."

Yet so many old buildings in Europe have been around for hundreds of years now. Why can't Leadership in Salt Lake City build something that lasts more than a few decades?

Joseph wrote:Yet so many old buildings in Europe have been around for hundreds of years now. Why can't Leadership in Salt Lake City build something that lasts more than a few decades?

Our leaders now are not as interested in leaving a lasting legacy.

I mean, look at the great buildings that were built after the arrival in the Salt Lake valley: the tabernacle, the temple... heck, even the Paris ID stake center (I think that's the one with all the stained glass). Those buildings have lasted for 200 years; they were built to last for generations, and they have. Yet in comparison the ones built in the last few years are pathetic. And one of the reasons, at least, is because of all the worry around "appearance". We have to "appear" prosperous, and so we throw things together quickly... and it turns out shoddy and cheap. So instead of looking prosperous, we look shoddy and cheap. And since it doesn't sound like the building projects are let out to competitive bid, shoddy and cheap is what we'll have for quite some time to come.

And we deserve what we get!

harmony wrote:I mean, look at the great buildings that were built after the arrival in the Salt Lake valley: the tabernacle, the temple... heck, even the Paris ID stake center (I think that's the one with all the stained glass). Those buildings have lasted for 200 years; they were built to last for generations, and they have.

Well, you are plainly wrong. The tabernacle and the Paris ID tabernacle (I think that is what it is called, not the "stake center") Have each undergone substantial modifications and capital repairs which far outstrip the original cost.

I don' t know much about the SL temple, except that it has apparently cost many millions to upkeep.

Some of the most beautiful old buildings in the Church -- the Provo Tabernacle, the El Paso First Ward -- have cost the church millions to renovate. There are renovations ever 20 or 30 years, or less.

When the Church wanted to tear down the Provo Academy (there was an eyesore), it was forced to rebuild it by environmental goups, at considerable cost. Ditto the Vernal Tabernacle (now the temple).

Yahoo Bot wrote:When the Church wanted to tear down the Provo Academy (there was an eyesore), it was forced to rebuild it by environmental goups, at considerable cost. Ditto the Vernal Tabernacle (now the temple).

Well, not quite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provo_City_Library

The Brigham Young Academy was one of the largest school buildings in the western Rocky Mountain region. The Principal of the Academy, Karl G. Maeser, designed the building with the help of Don Carlos Young as the architect. The Academy was located in Northern Provo. The name of the building has changed many times: in 1898, it was known as the High School Building, and in 1922 it was known as the Education Building, which it remained until 1968.

For the next 20 years, Academy Square remained vacant and slowly began to deteriorate. While real estate developers were eager to tear down the dilapidated buildings, Provo residents supported the preservation of the historic site.[5] In 1997, a municipal bond and private donations financed the renovation of the Education Building; the other three buildings on Academy Square were demolished to make room for a parking garage.[6] Fundraising and restoration efforts were spearheaded by BYU professor L. Douglas Smoot,[7] who gained the moniker "the man who saved Academy Square."[8] Construction was completed in 2001 and the project succeeded to what is now known as the Provo City Library.[9]

Yahoo Bot wrote:

harmony wrote:I mean, look at the great buildings that were built after the arrival in the Salt Lake valley: the tabernacle, the temple... heck, even the Paris ID stake center (I think that's the one with all the stained glass). Those buildings have lasted for 200 years; they were built to last for generations, and they have.

Well, you are plainly wrong. The tabernacle and the Paris ID tabernacle (I think that is what it is called, not the "stake center") Have each undergone substantial modifications and capital repairs which far outstrip the original cost.

My point is that they still exist, and are mostly their original work. I've been through both, and the guides are always quick to point out the original workmanship is still holding.

I don't think putting modern plumbing and electricity counts as substantially modifying the original buildings, Bot.

I don' t know much about the SL temple, except that it has apparently cost many millions to upkeep.

Well, it has modern lighting and plumbing, so I'm assuming those have been added since its orignal dedication.

I'm surprised at you, Bot. Have you no appreciation for the few amazing pieces of architecture we actually have? Granted, we're in McTemple building now, but it wasn't always that way. Our buildings once were elegant and awesome... now they're just like anyone else's.

Mr. Yahoo Bot,

harmony posted

harmony wrote:I mean, look at the great buildings that were built after the arrival in the Salt Lake valley: the tabernacle, the temple... heck, even the Paris ID stake center (I think that's the one with all the stained glass). Those buildings have lasted for 200 years; they were built to last for generations, and they have.

Then you

Yahoo Bot wrote:Well, you are plainly wrong. The tabernacle and the Paris ID tabernacle (I think that is what it is called, not the "stake center") Have each undergone substantial modifications and capital repairs which far outstrip the original cost.

I suppose that harmony did exaggerate a bit--the Paris Idaho Stake Tabernacle was used for just 118 years before it was renovated. http://www.rickross.com/reference/Mormon/mormon181.html
That's a tad longer than the 36 years it took the COB to become decrepit.

I am sure that $1m renovation outstripped the original cost, but I'd be interested in an analysis that uses constant dollars. I suspect the COB's renovation will outstrip, in constant dollars, its original cost farther than will the outstripping, in contstant dollars, of the Paris Tabernacle vis-a-vis its original cost.

harmony's point stands, despite her perhaps waxing a bit hyperbolic in the tradition of Brigham Young.

Regards,

Spider.

Spider-to-the-Fly wrote:harmony's point stands, despite her perhaps waxing a bit hyperbolic in the tradition of Brigham Young.

Regards,

Spider.

Sorry. I happen to love the old buildings. And that stained glass in the hinterland of Idaho was just amazing. And I loved the renovations on the Manti temple. The old buildings have so much more character than our current ones.

Spider-to-the-Fly wrote:harmony's point stands, despite her perhaps waxing a bit hyperbolic in the tradition of Brigham Young.

Well, there you go. Never mind my comment that church buildings require lots of upkeep. My own local building is getting a complete earthquake repair this month. Probably costs as much as the original building.

It will be a shame when they tear down the Mesa Arizona Temple..

~ No announced plans yet but given its blighted location and the spiffy McTemples in Gilbert and Glendale - the cost to keep Mesa open will doom the ol' girl..

edit..
Besides its a defective temple as it has no steeple which the church claims is essential to temple worship..

Tchild wrote:Well, not quite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provo_City_Library

The Brigham Young Academy was one of the largest school buildings in the western Rocky Mountain region. The Principal of the Academy, Karl G. Maeser, designed the building with the help of Don Carlos Young as the architect. The Academy was located in Northern Provo. The name of the building has changed many times: in 1898, it was known as the High School Building, and in 1922 it was known as the Education Building, which it remained until 1968.

For the next 20 years, Academy Square remained vacant and slowly began to deteriorate. While real estate developers were eager to tear down the dilapidated buildings, Provo residents supported the preservation of the historic site.[5] In 1997, a municipal bond and private donations financed the renovation of the Education Building; the other three buildings on Academy Square were demolished to make room for a parking garage.[6] Fundraising and restoration efforts were spearheaded by BYU professor L. Douglas Smoot,[7] who gained the moniker "the man who saved Academy Square."[8] Construction was completed in 2001 and the project succeeded to what is now known as the Provo City Library.[9]

Yup, we use that library all the time. If I recall correctly, the foundation had a terrible time raising money, but at the last moment, some big-time donations came in that saved the academy. And it was not the LDS church that paid for the renovation, let alone was "forced" to do so.

Of course, the only part of the library housed in the original academy building is the children's library, and that's just the basement level. The rest is offices and a ballroom (which is rented out for wedding receptions). I'm still glad they saved it. It's a beautiful building.