Mormon Gulag Advice

[_Spider-to-the-Fly]

The worst thing you could do to yourself is to set some unrealistic expectation and then punish yourself for not getting there.

MrStakhanovite,

You will never be called to be a Mormon mission president with that attitude.

Regards,

Spider.

[_truth dancer]

Eric,

Tell them to call me.

Seriously!

Parents need to know what goes down.

BC,

I will pray that you will see the utter worthlessness and fultility of your cause and quickly find something more worthwhile to spend your time on.

This comment makes me sick. There is no better cause than to eliminate child abuse. The fact that you would pray for Eric to stop his work to eliminate child abuse speaks volumes.

~td~

[_truth dancer]

Keep in mind what West Ridge really is. It is a state-licensed facility for troubled teenagers. It is licensed by the State of California. It has had and does have mental health workers on site continually.

Irrelevant. You think this means kids are safe? Are you kidding?

West Ridge takes all types of troubled kids -- drug addled to the violent, although their website has said they don't take violent kids. In reality, their case workers have to deal with kids who violently don't want to be there.

So?

None of Eric's claims nor claims of friends have, as far as I can tell from court records, led to any lawsuits. Exceptions to this comment appear to be a lawsuit filed by Tyler Elsey, but it appears this case was dismissed in 2009. And, the Williis case, I can't tell just yet.

So?

Are these facilities worthwhile? I really have no comment on that. When parents have asked my advice about sending their sons there, I have always urged them to gut it out at home, put up with the violence and the drugs, and do whatever is necessary to keep the kid in the home rather than put them in hands of people who don't love them. There has been a mountain of studies debating whether these types of facilities are worth it. Experts on both sides.

The only experts who condone such facilities are those who are unaware of the research.

These facilities are archaic, primitive, horrific excuses for treatment. They are based on a mindset popular about a hundred years ago. They are abusive, cruel, and should not exist in civilized society.

Are these facilities wrong? I can't comment on that, either, one way or the other. But, when parents decide to use a third party to forcibly restrain and detain their children (abduction is not the right word where the parents sign the commitment papers) and put them incommunicado into a strange place with teenagers with similar problems, I just don't see it.

Again, they should not exist in any civilized society. Period.

~td~

[_MCB]

Parents who make a mess of their children, and then abandon them because of the mess they have made, should be strung up by the yardarm. Can the two of you agree on that much?

[_Yahoo Bot]

Parents who make a mess of their children, and then abandon them because of the mess they have made, should be strung up by the yardarm. Can the two of you agree on that much?

Having counseled many parents, I can say that it is too easy to say that "parents make a mess of their children." It is too easy for us to sit in a bishopric or something like that, cluck our tongues, and say -- hey, what would you expect? Look at the parents. I speak from personal experience, having been kicked out of my house at the age of 16. My parents were saints.

But, I would not recommend to any parent to institutionalize any kid like this. It is tough when a 15-year-old drugged-out kid comes at the mother of home with young children with a knife. What do you do? Putting them in an institution will make things worse.

I can think of several cases I've handled -- older boys raping younger children in the household; 14-year-old girls who think that they have to sleep with every boy they meet and inject seriously risky drugs.

But, having said that, Truth Dancer is just ignoring the huge body of literature by trained professionals which basically upholds and support these institutions. Because they are controversial, a lot has been generated. But, in California the alternative is terrible -- the California Youth Authority. A parent can easily send their children there if the child can be proven to be guilty of drug or violence offenses.

[_MCB]

You are now off my "ignore" list.

[_Yahoo Bot]

Again, they should not exist in any civilized society. Period.

~td~

So, thinking of a couple of cases I've advised folks on over the years:

1. 15 year old boy is discovered to have repeatedly sexually assaulted a younger handicapped daughter.

2. 14 year old girl likes to do serious drugs - heroin, ecstasy, meth, which leads her to sleep with a couple of guys a week. She breaks out of the house with a hammer to get out when her parents try to lock her down.

3. Sixteen year old attempts arson on the family home when he's told he has to go to school and quit hanging out with his drug friends.

The only options TD offers are (1) Jail.

[_MrStakhanovite]

This thread has so much potential now.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Bob,

First, no I am not ignoring anything. I am however very current on what helps children and what does not.

Secondly, you make it sound as if you are some child psychologist advising parents on how to raise their children. You come across as if you are intimately involved with the latest research and are involved in a professional way with this population. Because someone asks your opinion on a topic does not mean you are some sort of expert nor does it mean you have any place to give advice. Just sayin. :-)

Finally, no jail is not the only option. Not at all.

I think we have covered this topic before so no need to rehash. Bottom line, residential "treatment" facilities should be outlawed.

~td~

[_Eric]

Bob,

Are court case involving minors (both cases, besides the Adam Willis case - which I beg the moderators to edit out his name - involve children that are currently minors) available for you to see?

I'm genuinely curious, because I thought otherwise, but if you can view juvenile court proceedings I will send you their last names and attorney's names so you can verify my claim.

As far as CYA, there are many, many better resources for families than the California Youth Authority. I am a fan of wraparound.

As far as government oversight at West Ridge Academy, please. There is no oversight whatsoever. Utah programs refuse to adopt industry standards, such as Youth Advocates, the Building Bridges Initiative, Youth guided treatment programs, and just about everything else considered to be "best practice" by the industry. At my conference in D.C, not ONE person from Utah was there.

But I know you know West Ridge Academy is a bad place to send a child. I'm glad you took the time to post thoughtfully and not just try and get a rise out of me.