Why?
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_The Mighty Builder
- _Emeritus
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- Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:48 pm
Why?
Why do all the Apostles live in Utah? Shouldn't one live on each Continent? Shouldn't the other five live on the larger Continents? Why do the Apostles live in Utah?
Are they not able to travel? Huntsman lets them use his private jets. Are there no Temples outside of Utah where they could set up (if necessary) electronic conferencing for their weekly meeting? Is the weekly washing of feet so important that the rest of the world can't have an Apostle living among them (Oh I seem to remember that Oaks and Holland lived in other countries for 3 to 6 months. Didn't those people benefit greatly from having one of the Lord's anointed living with them and sharing in their spiritual needs?)?
Can't the Presiding Bishopric take care of the Temporal needs of the Church like they are assigned? Isn't the Profit and his Councilors enough for the State of Utah?
Why do all the Apostles live in Utah?
Are they not able to travel? Huntsman lets them use his private jets. Are there no Temples outside of Utah where they could set up (if necessary) electronic conferencing for their weekly meeting? Is the weekly washing of feet so important that the rest of the world can't have an Apostle living among them (Oh I seem to remember that Oaks and Holland lived in other countries for 3 to 6 months. Didn't those people benefit greatly from having one of the Lord's anointed living with them and sharing in their spiritual needs?)?
Can't the Presiding Bishopric take care of the Temporal needs of the Church like they are assigned? Isn't the Profit and his Councilors enough for the State of Utah?
Why do all the Apostles live in Utah?
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_Joseph Antley
- _Emeritus
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Re: Why?
Because the Church isn't true.
Is that what you're fishing for?
Is that what you're fishing for?
"I'd say Joseph, that your anger levels are off the charts. What you are, Joseph, is a bully." - Gadianton
"Antley's anger is approaching...levels of volcanic hatred." - Scratch
http://Twitter.com/jtantley
"Antley's anger is approaching...levels of volcanic hatred." - Scratch
http://Twitter.com/jtantley
Re: Why?
Ant: I think it is an interesting question.
I wonder the same thing now. I wonder how the church might benefit by having them all over the world.
Of course, they may not want to live all over the world.
I wonder the same thing now. I wonder how the church might benefit by having them all over the world.
Of course, they may not want to live all over the world.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)
The Holy Sacrament.
The Holy Sacrament.
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_The Mighty Builder
- _Emeritus
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- Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:48 pm
Re: Why?
Whether it is true or not, shouldn't everyone be blessed with the presence of a Living Witness of Jesus Christ among them? Why should Utah be so overly blessed and a country like Mexico with all its needs not benefit from the blessings given to those who abide with the Apostles?
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_Doctor Scratch
- _Emeritus
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- Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:44 pm
Re: Why?
This is a really interesting question, and I think that there are a couple of explanations. The first, I would imagine, is based on ceremonial and traditional reasons. The Brethren historically have had their major meetings in the SLC temple, with all of them there in attendance to discuss whatever given issue is pertinent. Sure: they could do this via video conference call (or whatever), but I think you'd have to agree that this would kind of put a damper on the spiritual and ritual significance of the meeting.
The other reason has to do with unanimity among the Brethren. There is a lot of "wheeling and dealing" (for lack of a better term) that goes on behind the scenes. To cite just one example, think of the years leading up to the lifting of the priesthood ban. At the time there were still plenty of General Authorities who opposed lifting the ban, but obviously they all went along with it. Getting this done was partially the result of discussions, cajoling, etc. that took place behind the scenes. So, again: it's true that "convincing" can take place via email or phone calls or whatever else, but as every politician knows, nothing beats a face-to-face meeting.
The other reason has to do with unanimity among the Brethren. There is a lot of "wheeling and dealing" (for lack of a better term) that goes on behind the scenes. To cite just one example, think of the years leading up to the lifting of the priesthood ban. At the time there were still plenty of General Authorities who opposed lifting the ban, but obviously they all went along with it. Getting this done was partially the result of discussions, cajoling, etc. that took place behind the scenes. So, again: it's true that "convincing" can take place via email or phone calls or whatever else, but as every politician knows, nothing beats a face-to-face meeting.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
Re: Why?
If they were spread all over the country, they would quickly come to realize how unimportant they and their church is. IMHO Maybe a little bit of humility would help.
Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm
Re: Why?
For a few years, Oaks lived in the Philippines, and Holland lived in Chile. Does that count?
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_Spider-to-the-Fly
- _Emeritus
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Re: Why?
Mr. Mighty Builder,
Like Mr. zeezrom and Doctor Scratch, I find this question fascinating. The original Apostles dispersed to share the witness of Christ. They did not all stay in Jerusalem to be administrators of an institution.
Joseph Smith dispersed the Apostles of his time throughout the world, to do the same. Joseph Smith only summoned them home for support, as Joseph Smith's mischief had started to cause many in and about Nauvoo to question and even begin to challenge him. He needed people who had not witnessed first hand Joseph Smith's megalomania, and thus yet believed he was a prophet, to return and attest to their continued believe in Joseph Smith.
Brigham Young was really the one that first used the Apostles as administrators, as they are to this day, rather than witnesses of Christ to the world.
Now it seems that they are just 15 middle aged to very old men, minding the store, waiting to see if all those with seniority of appointment will die, clearing the way for him to become the titular head of the Mormon Church.
It's ironic that the Mormon Church touts Joseph Smith's prophetic claims based on the 'purity' and naïvété of a young boy asking God in earnest prayer be the vehicle or instrument for a flood of revelations to restore the true Gospel, but by the succession claim that succeeded with the largest number of Joseph Smith's followers, it has become all but certain that the prophet must be 85+ years of age.
Regards,
Spider.
Like Mr. zeezrom and Doctor Scratch, I find this question fascinating. The original Apostles dispersed to share the witness of Christ. They did not all stay in Jerusalem to be administrators of an institution.
Joseph Smith dispersed the Apostles of his time throughout the world, to do the same. Joseph Smith only summoned them home for support, as Joseph Smith's mischief had started to cause many in and about Nauvoo to question and even begin to challenge him. He needed people who had not witnessed first hand Joseph Smith's megalomania, and thus yet believed he was a prophet, to return and attest to their continued believe in Joseph Smith.
Brigham Young was really the one that first used the Apostles as administrators, as they are to this day, rather than witnesses of Christ to the world.
Now it seems that they are just 15 middle aged to very old men, minding the store, waiting to see if all those with seniority of appointment will die, clearing the way for him to become the titular head of the Mormon Church.
It's ironic that the Mormon Church touts Joseph Smith's prophetic claims based on the 'purity' and naïvété of a young boy asking God in earnest prayer be the vehicle or instrument for a flood of revelations to restore the true Gospel, but by the succession claim that succeeded with the largest number of Joseph Smith's followers, it has become all but certain that the prophet must be 85+ years of age.
Regards,
Spider.
Speaking of Rodin's sculpture, BYU official Alan Wilkins observed: "'The Thinker' does not represent the sort of activity that we believe is appropriate for the BYU setting."
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_Spider-to-the-Fly
- _Emeritus
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- Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:50 pm
Re: Why?
Runtu wrote:For a few years, Oaks lived in the Philippines, and Holland lived in Chile. Does that count?
Mr. Runtu,
Perhaps. Were they primarily administrators or witnessing of Christ while in those respective posts?
Regards,
Spider.
Speaking of Rodin's sculpture, BYU official Alan Wilkins observed: "'The Thinker' does not represent the sort of activity that we believe is appropriate for the BYU setting."
Re: Why?
Spider-to-the-Fly wrote:Runtu wrote:For a few years, Oaks lived in the Philippines, and Holland lived in Chile. Does that count?
Mr. Runtu,
Perhaps. Were they primarily administrators or witnessing of Christ while in those respective posts?
Regards,
Spider.
They were cleaning up the mess in both countries, so definitely as administrators first, witnesses second.