DiscussMormonism.com

Ray A wrote:These are only my personal observations from some 56 years on the planet. I talk to a lot of people, and every single adult over 40 I've met agrees that loss of respect for authority (I'm speaking of parents and the law here) is one of the main reasons for the clear decline of society. What you read in statistical journals/studies about crime rates, etc., is only the tip of the iceberg. For example, most crime and antisocial behaviour today goes unreported to police (or not acted upon because of "bureaucratic humbug"), and the citizens who ignore "official reports" know better what is going on in their own lives, and around them in society, than what they are told by "statisticians". There's a general feeling of gloom about the way society in general is heading, and no one seems to know what to do to reverse it.

I'm not going to argue with someone that has as much experience in the world as you do (much more than me). But I have to question a couple of things. I've talked to family members who are well into their 60's that are kind of rude when they talk about people of other nationalities and race and background.

So I wonder if it could be argued that young people respect other cultures more than the older generation while at the same time young people do not respect older people as much... I don't know. I've also observed that some of my SILs are more concerned about visiting their aging grandmother than their mother is.

Sure, I can see how children in public schools might disrespect their teachers more than kids did in the 1950's but I'm still wondering about the statistics and data that points to what BKP is suggesting.

zeezrom wrote:I find it interesting that BKP exaggerates the truth about society today. There is nothing however crude that is not deemed acceptable for movies or music? Really?

Well, what isn't in there yet?

Pedophilia? Check.
Incest? Check.
Bestiality? Check.
Mass Murder? Check.
Rape? Check.
Lawyers? Check.

The Nehor wrote:

zeezrom wrote:I find it interesting that BKP exaggerates the truth about society today. There is nothing however crude that is not deemed acceptable for movies or music? Really?

Well, what isn't in there yet?

Pedophilia? Check.
Incest? Check.
Bestiality? Check.
Mass Murder? Check.
Rape? Check.
Lawyers? Check.

This sounds just like the Bible!!!

The Nehor wrote:

zeezrom wrote:I find it interesting that BKP exaggerates the truth about society today. There is nothing however crude that is not deemed acceptable for movies or music? Really?

Well, what isn't in there yet?

Pedophilia? Check.
Incest? Check.
Bestiality? Check.
Mass Murder? Check.
Rape? Check.
Lawyers? Check.

With the notable exception of the lawyers, all of those have always been with us.

zeezrom wrote:I'm not going to argue with someone that has as much experience in the world as you do (much more than me).

Thankfully, I’m not Methuselah nor Solomon. These are only my opinions, but I’ve found the vast majority of the older generation in my country seem share them (from broad observations, including polls, media commentary, and what we call “pub talk”. It’s the buzz, how the younger generation just don’t have the respect and discipline of the older generation). No one ever suggests “the old time religion” as a solution. In fact, many wonder if “the old time religion” may have contributed to some of the problems. Witness what happened in the Catholic Church last century.

zeezrom wrote:But I have to question a couple of things. I've talked to family members who are well into their 60's that are kind of rude when they talk about people of other nationalities and race and background.

So I wonder if it could be argued that young people respect other cultures more than the older generation while at the same time young people do not respect older people as much... I don't know.

I can’t opinionate on the American psyche, as you have your own brand of “historical racism”, but I think there are similarities in approaches to race differences. The idea that the younger generation is more tolerant is a myth right out of Wonderland. If the younger generation is more racist, then it’s because they learnt that racism from their parents. I think tolerance is slowly gaining ground in some areas, but racism in our society is generally deep, ingrained, and publicly denied. What people write about in the media (which has to censor racism by law), and what they talk about in pubs, are two different things. There’s a “public face” of tolerance, but the truth is a private disgrace. If you think Mormons in the 19th century were racist, go read up on The White Australia Policy. That was “officially” abandoned in 1973, with an Act passed in parliament in 1975, three years before the “lifting of the Pharaoh’s Curse”. Thirty-five years on, old attitudes still die hard.

But racism is only one aspect to what I’m talking about.

zeezrom wrote:Sure, I can see how children in public schools might disrespect their teachers more than kids did in the 1950's but I'm still wondering about the statistics and data that points to what BKP is suggesting.

By all means look up the stats, but it’s going to be hard to find stats that really answer or solve these grass roots problems. Many suggest that a lack of discipline caused by abandoning youth accountability, and taking power and authority away from teachers is a prime cause of the current malaise.

The Nehor wrote:

zeezrom wrote:I find it interesting that BKP exaggerates the truth about society today. There is nothing however crude that is not deemed acceptable for movies or music? Really?

Well, what isn't in there yet?

Pedophilia? Check.
Incest? Check.
Bestiality? Check.
Mass Murder? Check.
Rape? Check.
Lawyers? Check.

Yeah, what will you do about old Dallin Oaks, a lawyer infiltrated the Q12. Oh, and what about Howard W. Hunter, another rascally lawyer that outlived non-lawyers to become God's prophet. Wait, didn't Joseph Smith himself claim to be the greatest lawyer?** Abominations. Abominations, I tell you!

**"I am a lawyer; I am a big lawyer and comprehend heaven, earth and hell, to bring forth knowledge that shall cover up all lawyers, doctors and other big bodies." History of the Church, Vol. 5, p. 289

"Don't employ lawyers, or pay them money for their knowledge, for I have learned that they don't know anything. I know more than they all." History of the Church, Vol. 5, p. 467

--Makes me wonder why the Church does not take Joseph Smith's counsel and not employ or pay lawyers. When in need, Joseph Smith should just appear and give the Church all the legal knowledge it needs.

Ray A wrote: These are only my opinions, but I’ve found the vast majority of the older generation in my country seem share them (from broad observations, including polls, media commentary, and what we call “pub talk”. It’s the buzz, how the younger generation just don’t have the respect and discipline of the older generation).

I remember that sort of talk when I was a kid... targetting MY generation (yours too... I'm 58). We were the spoiled kids from the WWII vets who thought our rights were more important than any else's. And now we're saying the same crap about the next generation.

No "older" generation is going to appreciate the "younger" generation, because the younger generation is trying out all sorts of new ideas, new concepts, and by doing so, implies (and outright SAYS) that the way the older generation did things wasn't right or didn't work or was old fashioned. They'll have the same problem with THEIR kids and their kids' kids.

There really is nothing new under the sun. It's only as bad as we want it to be. If you want to see the bad, that is all you will see. So many changes... women can climb corporate ladders, have careers in engineering, aerospace, politics, etc, diseases have been conquered, farms produce more food than ever before, clean water is a priority, children have intrinsic value to society; these are all HUGE changes. Yes, there is still war, crime, filth, and disease, but don't deny the good things that have occurred and continue to occur every day.

The Nehor wrote:

zeezrom wrote:I find it interesting that BKP exaggerates the truth about society today. There is nothing however crude that is not deemed acceptable for movies or music? Really?

Well, what isn't in there yet?

Pedophilia? Check.
Incest? Check.
Bestiality? Check.
Mass Murder? Check.
Rape? Check.
Lawyers? Check.

In where? The movies I don't let my children see? You mean those?

harmony wrote:

The Nehor wrote:Pedophilia? Check.
Incest? Check.
Bestiality? Check.
Mass Murder? Check.
Rape? Check.
Lawyers? Check.

With the notable exception of the lawyers, all of those have always been with us.

Funny thing, there were lawyers in the Book of Mormon. In fact, I think that Zeezrom was a lawyer--just like the moniker of this thread starter.

Formality, dignity, nobility, and respect for authority are mocked. Modesty and neatness yield to slouchiness and shabbiness in dress and grooming. The rules of honesty and integrity and basic morality are now ignored. Conversation is laced with profanity. You see that in art and literature, in drama and entertainment. Instead of being refined, they have become coarse.

Good thing that fraud and unethical business practices never get mentioned. Let Utah be Utah I say.