Mormon feminism

[_moksha]

Is there really such a thing as a Mormon Feminist?

None that are TBM's. Once they take on the mantle of feminist, they are on the high road to apostasy.

Plus the most TBM women, when not performing Church duties, are barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen making a sandwich for her helpmeet to nourish and strengthen him.

[_MsJack]

Not being able to step on the trail in the first place after I provided a very easy step is your admission of defeat.

There's no defeat to admit. You have no idea what the hell you're talking about and are incapable of discussing the issues in a reasonable and informed fashion. You're probably only popping your head out of your fox hole now because you know I've got to be gone for the next week and can't spend more time putting you over my knee.

You claimed that the "main problems" for Mormon feminists were ordination to the priesthood, the ERA, and "hobbies" pertaining to Heavenly Mother. On the first one: Mormon feminist concerns are nowhere near as simple as "we want the priesthood." They have a long list of issues with policies and well-established practices in the church that marginalize women while theologically having nothing to do with holding the priesthood. Additionally, they're keenly aware that a number of Christian denominations technically ordain women to their clergy, but in practice have very few female ministers and quietly encourage traditional gender roles, so they know that ordination to the priesthood isn't an automatic fix for their problems. While most of them would like to see women given the priesthood eventually, their complaints about the system are far more complex and multifaceted than that.

If anybody would like to plumb the depths of bcspace's ignorance, I created a list here that outlines Mormon feminists concerns outside of the question of ordination to the priesthood. The list is due for some updating and revision (there's one or two I would strike from the list altogether and one or two I would add), but it's been a popular list with my LDS feminist friends and got mentioned in their panels at Sunstone. I presented another list in the comments at fMh here and added to it here. Judge for yourself how many of those things have anything to do with ordination to the priesthood, the ERA, or Heavenly Mother.

On the second one: very few Mormon feminists have significant interest in working on an ERA to pass now---in part because something like 21-22 states (including Utah) already have equal rights clauses in their constitutions. The history of the ERA's failure gets discussed every now and again because of its historical significance for modern Mormon feminism, but it's far from a focal issue that Mormon feminists are working on now. At fMh, it's been mentioned in posts a grand total of two times this year out of hundreds of posts.

Finally, to refer to Mormon feminist concerns with Heavenly Mother as "hobbies" is just idiotic in and of itself.

See you folks in a week.

[_Joseph]

Feminists and Priesthood. Mr space, when will 'all things be restored' and we will once again see Prophetess in the lead in some Church activities?

[_Ella Menno]

With all due respect, it is difficult, nigh unto impossible, for a Mormon man to understand Mormon feminism as they have not lived the Mormon women's life. Yes, I totally understand that there are loads of women who are fine with the status quo, but for a large segment that is not enough. Just because that is the way it's always been doesn't make it right. It's a man's church. Women are forgotten and relegated to the shadows. Those women who voice their opinions and work towards change are further marginalized by the leadership. I know this. I've lived it. Don't tell me this is the way God wants it. God gave me talents just like God gave men. It isn't a sin to desire to use those talents.

Frankly, I no longer care about the women and the priesthood issue. The priesthood is no more than a religious construct with little bearing on what God really wants or whether or not a person is really "worthy", IMHO. My issue is what women and girls are learning about their place in the world and the eternities. I realize that the church is trying desperately to appear more progressive, but there is still the underlying assumption that women are somehow less than men. Even the placating messages that men have the priesthood because women are spiritually superior do little to make things equal, possibly worsening a bad situation for both women and men. Mormon feminism is attempting to bring women out of the shadows and allow them to use their God given talents for the benefit of all.

Perhaps it's a losing battle. Mormon feminism is really no more than feminism-lite. I think allowing each person to learn, grow, and use their talents to the utmost instead of forcing people into the prescribed boxes is the way to elevate both sexes. More of a humanistic approach. More of a Christlike approach.

[_Ella Menno]

If you haven't read Ms Jack's linked list of issues, you should. Then think about each of those issues as though you were directly affected. None of them has to do with women receiving the priesthood or Mother in Heaven. Thank you, Ms Jack.

[_Droopy]

Is there really such a thing as a Mormon Feminist?

None that are TBM's. Once they take on the mantle of feminist, they are on the high road to apostasy.

Yes, as it must be continually pointed out, is the case with all forms of leftism or cultural Marxism, of which radical feminism is a major sect.

I remember only too well the tactics LDSinc used against the Equal Rights Amendment and how strident and shrill the preaching from the pulpit about 'feminism'.

I remember nothing "strident and shill" from that era except the strident and shill screeching of feminists about "revolution" and "liberation", which was little different than the strident and shrill screeching of various and sundry leftists of the era regarding the same subjects.

The problem is that the Church isn't opposed to women's rights and none of those is being violated by the Church or in US law. The general problem is with the latest waves of feminism which, for example, promote alternate lifestyles. The main problem in the Church for self-styled Mormon feminists remains ordination to the priesthood, "ERA", and gospel hobbies regarding Heavenly Mother.

Radical (the only kind that has survived the sixties as a viable movement) feminism's signal success was the promotion and celebration of the destruction of the family, traditional sexual standards, and the crassest forms of self worship and individualistic, self absorbed atomism.

In this, it has succeeded beyond anything it could have imagined just forty years ago, and those successes are, I suspect, permanent.

[_Blixa]

Wow. Thanks for the link to that interesting fmh discussion, Jack. It was a fascinating jump-start into where things are now. Sadly, they seem for the most part to be where they were in 1970 or so when I decided that Mormonism was certain brain death for me.