Malcolm wrote:I think, one problem for onlookers and outsiders is in knowing what LDS women want, what direction do LDS feminists wish to take in order to obtain some semblance of equality?
Mormon men need to be told what Mormon women want.
Part of the problem, though, is that Mormon women don't know what they want, or pretend not to. I can't tell you how many times I've heard women say they don't want the responsibility men have (esp. priesthood). It's such a cop out. They want to be taken seriously, but not seriously enough to endanger their immortal soul.
As a Mormon woman (albeit on the fringe), I get it. We're told over and over in primary, YW, and RS what we should want. When we want something different we almost can't accept it of ourselves. We play the martyr. We'll rail over the injustice of the patriarchy online while submitting every Sunday with nary a protest. Those who do voice opinions are marginalized in their ward or community.
If Mormon feminists are to really be taken seriously they have to take full responsibility. They have to be willing to walk away. They have to honestly stand up to the patriarchy and not back down. I think men of this generation are more open to equality but women have to take it or the opportunity will be gone.
We shall not cease from exploration and the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. T.S.Eliot
To more directly answer the question "What do (feminist) hope to accomplish?", I offer my modest (hah!) beginning list.
- Baby Step (relatively easy) Changes Many LDS Women Want –
TEMPLE related:
. No more “bow your head and say “yes” to obeying her husband, and other arbitrary temple oaths.
. No more secret “new” name for males, while women are to reveal their new name to their husband. (Perhaps so that a newly-arrived-in-heaven wife couldn’t call out to her post-mortal husband, by name, to accept her into his kingdom.)
. No more husband-eternal-sealing to another women in the temple, after the death of the first wife, without the first wife’s freely--not coerced--documented written permission. (Coercion was the rule for polygamy when practiced in the early church.)
. No more veiling-of-the-face of women in the temple.
. Change temple garment designs, by women (which currently are unnecessarily awkward for women).
- Other Demeaning Church Practices Which Should Be Changed –
. Church leaders should provide the current church doctrine on polygamy, fully and without deceptions or omissions, including for temple marriage rites for a previously “sealed” man, to a second (or more) woman, and “by proxy” marriages.
. Church decisions, from wards to the general presidency of the church, should be made with equal, meaningful, female participation. (Men who presume to be better qualified, “in the name of God”, to make better decisions for women, without the input of women, are deceiving themselves. It is an absurd practice, besides being demeaning to women, and worse, puts the “blame” for this biased and flawed practice on God.
. Change the practice of asking husbands if their wife can be “called” to a church job, and not ask permission of women if their husband can be “called” to a job (including serving in a Bishopric or in scouting).
. Cease treating women like children, with no prospect of ever being treated as an adult, even in heaven (as church doctrine states that women are to be “directed” by males in what to do, or not do). (According to current church doctrine, all males--even young boys-—automatically outrank all women, no matter how capable and faithful the female may be, and no matter how weak-of-faith and incompetent the male may be, and puts the blame for this biased, demeaning, practice on God.) (Is the LDS God a “respecter of persons” regarding one’s faith, according to one’s gender?)
. Officially acknowledge that the prayers of faithful women are every bit as efficacious and respected by God as are those of men (including those who “hold” the priesthood). (Is the LDS God a “respecter of Persons” regarding prayers, according to one’s gender?)
. Change hymns which refer to males only, and replace with non-gender terms, such as “saint”). (According to some hymns, the gospel message, and salvation, and love of God, is basically for males only.)
. Keep honest financial records and open them for view, to show how the church spends its members’ contributions. (Nothing like shinning light on a subject to help the spenders of funds act “more fully” honorable in spending them.) How much is spent for male causes (like scouting and sport facilities, such as basketball), versus what is spent for female causes (such as for exercise classes, and child-care nurseries during the week.
. Provide necessary hygiene items for women in bathroom stalls (such as a place to deposit used items).
. Provide toilet and sink facilities for nursery and primary children, instead of allowing these beginner-toilet-trained children to mess-up, and clog-up, the adult women’s bathroom facilities (which currently have to be cleaned before they can be used).
. Improve kitchen facilities.
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The church has made multiple, major, changes in its doctrine and practices (such as in temple rites, in priesthood policy for blacks, and in polygamous practices). Such changes show the church is capable of making changes, especially when it is expedient, and if pressured to do so.
This is a reminder that many positive changes are possible for those with a will.
I support female clergy and priesthood in the Mormon sense. I really don't see any reason not to. I however am not a feminist nor a chauvinist.
What I ask is why would a self-labeled feminist want the preisthood? Many not all but most don't seem to see any significance in the first place.
Most of the supervision and management where I work is female. There pay rate is based upon seniority and department. When I was in business most management was also female most were paid equal or above me however that company is aligned heavily with progeessive organizations.
Frankly my status in the LDS church is such that I hold not calling and have no ordinances above a priest. I wonder however if feminists in the church want it for the fact most are overloaded male and female with too much as it is.
Lastly my wife is a career woman and is essentially the 'bread-winner'. Why anyone snickers in the church at women working is beyond me. I would think tithing revenue and the fact that few families can afford to live a Mormon lifestyle without two incomes would be appearant.
The entire discussion is very worth reading; I found it useful for getting a sense of where these discussions are now. However, they seem for the most part to be where they were in 1970 when I was first confronting the overwhelming sexism of church doctrine and church culture. Comments like this one, really brought back memories (except I figured this out around age 14):
I was pondering this topic while driving the other day when suddenly I realized that a 12 year old boy has more power and authority in this church than I do. Me, a 31 year old woman, who is college educated, has been in many positions of leadership, has a wonderful career, who is a mother to three children, and is quite a capable person.
So while there may be growing feminist consciousness among young Mormon women, especially in terms of the way the institution's patriarchal structure plays out in the everyday, not much seems to have changed. Indeed, one could make the argument that with the gender fundamentalism of "The Family: A Proclamation, etc." the lid has been screwed down even tighter. Or maybe that "revelation" only serves to underscore what the situation's been all along. Despite the traces of something quite different flickering here and there in the church's history and doctrinal speculation, a rigid understanding sex and gender seems pretty foundational with only a weak ass "separate but equal" complementarianism as the only possible "progress."
When she's finished moving, I hope Ms. Jack will return to these threads with a fresher perspective than mine...
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
Listening to this podcast gives some excellent insights as to what one Mormon feminist has accomplished. I would imagine she's not alone. First person that came to mind as I looked at your question. It's OK to give an actual example, right?
Nothing will change from the inside out. Change will happen when there is enough pressure from outside the church, when enough people leave the church due to a policy or practice, or when conversions stop due to a particular issue. In other words, when the PR is bad enough and the money stops flowing in.
Think of the changes that have occurred in the church over the last, say, fifty years. The ban on blacks, the changes in the temple, birth control, oral sex, changes in doctrine (or lack thereof), etc. etc. They have all resulted from outside information or pressure.
Currently, women who do not fully support LDS doctrine/practice/teachings are considered less valiant, less worthy, and less obedience than their more supportive sisters. Hence, it is not acceptable to speak up or stand up for equality.
IOM, there is little women within the church can do to help the church move into this century and embrace equal rights for women and men. But, in time, the LDS church will be viewed as so backward and unhealthy due to their archaic views on women that there will be change. I doubt I will see it in my lifetime, but it will slowly and surely happen.
And... in my opinion, one of the most crucial changes that needs to occur is to eliminate men discussing anything related to sex with girls and women other than their wives. Period. Girls should NEVER be in a position of having to discuss sex with grown men, alone and behind closed doors. This is just plain sick. How this practice can continue today is beyond me.
OK... done for now. (Hee, hee)!
~td~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj