Elder Jensen Apologizes for Prop 8
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_Spurven Ten Sing
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Elder Jensen Apologizes for Prop 8
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Re: Elder Jensen Apologizes for Prop 8
Spurven Ten Sing wrote:http://mormonmatters.org/2010/09/25/elder-marlin-jensen-apologizes-for-proposition-8/
Well, that's a bombshell, but I have to wonder if Elder Jensen isn't being misquoted. Certainly John Dehlin isn't doing him any favors by publicizing this.
Re: Elder Jensen Apologizes for Prop 8
Nevo wrote:Spurven Ten Sing wrote:http://mormonmatters.org/2010/09/25/elder-marlin-jensen-apologizes-for-proposition-8/
Well, that's a bombshell, but I have to wonder if Elder Jensen isn't being misquoted. Certainly John Dehlin isn't doing him any favors by publicizing this.
Nevo... you aren't usually such an ass, but you certainly deserve that label for this post.
Misquoted? You can't bear the thought that a church leader could be personally SORRY for the obvious pain an action the church took caused these people? You can't allow him that much HUMANITY because why? It disturbs you that the people in the room at that time may feel the spirit of healing? of love? of sharing?
He didn't apologize for the CHURCH. The FP and the church members who campaigned still bear that burden. But Elder Jensen no longer bears the burden of that sin.
My God, man! I cannot believe you posted that!
I hope to God he WASN'T misquoted. I'd like to think that one... just ONE... of the GAs finally understands how profoundly hurtful the church's actions in Prop 8 really were.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
Re: Elder Jensen Apologizes for Prop 8
If Elder Jensen was apologizing for the Church's involvement in Prop 8—which, after all, is what is implied by the headline "Elder Jenson Apologizes for Proposition 8"—then he was definitely off message and I can only imagine that it will hurt him. If he was simply expressing sorrow that some members felt hurt by Prop 8, then I don't see a problem. Elder Jensen, it happens, is one of my favorite General Authorities. I would hate to see him given emeritus status any time soon.
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_sock puppet
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Re: Elder Jensen Apologizes for Prop 8
Nevo wrote:If Elder Jensen was apologizing for the Church's involvement in Prop 8—which, after all, is what is implied by the headline "Elder Jenson Apologizes for Proposition 8"—then he was definitely off message and I can only imagine that it will hurt him. If he was simply expressing sorrow that some members felt hurt by Prop 8, then I don't see a problem. Elder Jensen, it happens, is one of my favorite General Authorities. I would hate to see him given emeritus status any time soon.
definitely off message? When apologizing for harm is off message, how can the organization lay any claim to be a religion much less Christian?
Re: Elder Jensen Apologizes for Prop 8
Nevo wrote:If Elder Jensen was apologizing for the Church's involvement in Prop 8—which, after all, is what is implied by the headline "Elder Jenson Apologizes for Proposition 8"—then he was definitely off message and I can only imagine that it will hurt him. If he was simply expressing sorrow that some members felt hurt by Prop 8, then I don't see a problem. Elder Jensen, it happens, is one of my favorite General Authorities. I would hate to see him given emeritus status any time soon.
I took him to mean he was apologizing as an individual, not as a representative of the church. There can be no acceptable apology from the church unless it's given from the pulpit in general conference... but then we'd see the talk rewritten and the apology left on the cutting room floor.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
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_Flat Lander
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Re: Elder Jensen Apologizes for Prop 8
Carol Lynn Pearson claimed to be present at the meeting and quoted Jensen's words somewhat differently as:
“…Do we owe an apology? I will say I am sorry. To the full extent of my capacity I say I am sorry.”
He also apparently indicated that he is in the "third tier" of leadership in the church and he apparently took extensive notes and said that he would take these concerns back to The Brethren. Since he asked the question "Do we owe an apology?" is it then reasonable to interpret his response this way? "to the full extent of my capacity [as a member of the third tier of leadership of the church] I say I am sorry." ?
I think it is an interesting question. He might have actually been trying to slip in a form of institutional apology.
“…Do we owe an apology? I will say I am sorry. To the full extent of my capacity I say I am sorry.”
He also apparently indicated that he is in the "third tier" of leadership in the church and he apparently took extensive notes and said that he would take these concerns back to The Brethren. Since he asked the question "Do we owe an apology?" is it then reasonable to interpret his response this way? "to the full extent of my capacity [as a member of the third tier of leadership of the church] I say I am sorry." ?
I think it is an interesting question. He might have actually been trying to slip in a form of institutional apology.
Flat Lander
Presiding Bishop
Moron Church of Latter-day Saints
Visit The Moron Church of Latter-day Saints website.
Presiding Bishop
Moron Church of Latter-day Saints
Visit The Moron Church of Latter-day Saints website.
Re: Elder Jensen Apologizes for Prop 8
If he did make some form of apology he should expect to be removed at conference.
But what exactly is he apologizing for? For standing for something? For holding up a principle of the gospel? For extoling virtue and the law of chastity?
The homosexual community was hurt and insulted by prop 8 because their sick and twisted world view was held up for what it is. No moral degenerate likes the light of day, and prop 8 was the religious and conservative community banding to gether to shine that light.
But what exactly is he apologizing for? For standing for something? For holding up a principle of the gospel? For extoling virtue and the law of chastity?
The homosexual community was hurt and insulted by prop 8 because their sick and twisted world view was held up for what it is. No moral degenerate likes the light of day, and prop 8 was the religious and conservative community banding to gether to shine that light.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
Re: Elder Jensen Apologizes for Prop 8
His apology is probably sincere. He does not speak for LDSinc. His apology for the Mountain Meadows Massacre would undoubtedly be sincere also but once again only for himself, not LDSinc.
If this is what third tier LDS leadership is coming to why did none of them have any inspiration when all this first came up? Why now after all the hate, negativity and hurt?
Government and religion are separate and should be. Encourage the members to uphold moral positions. Preach on the moral positions. DON'T pay and push the members to support them as a church position and responsibility.
It is telling that not one of the top LDSinc leaders is on record as having given even a penny to the Prop8 measure. They talk the talk, but don't walk the walk.
If this is what third tier LDS leadership is coming to why did none of them have any inspiration when all this first came up? Why now after all the hate, negativity and hurt?
Government and religion are separate and should be. Encourage the members to uphold moral positions. Preach on the moral positions. DON'T pay and push the members to support them as a church position and responsibility.
It is telling that not one of the top LDSinc leaders is on record as having given even a penny to the Prop8 measure. They talk the talk, but don't walk the walk.
"This is how INGORNAT these fools are!" - darricktevenson
Bow your head and mutter, what in hell am I doing here?
infaymos wrote: "Peterson is the defacto king ping of the Mormon Apologetic world."
Bow your head and mutter, what in hell am I doing here?
infaymos wrote: "Peterson is the defacto king ping of the Mormon Apologetic world."
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_Jason Bourne
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Re: Elder Jensen Apologizes for Prop 8
I certainly do not know the context of this but I do know the man. Without sharing details of how during a period of time I was able to get to know Marlin Jensen quite well. I spent time in his home of the time and he mine. And I can tell you he is one of the most Christ like persons I have ever met. His deprecation about he being the third tier and expendable is his genuine humility. I spoke to him after he was in the bug PBS series on the Church and complimented him and again he said that the brethren sent him because he is very expendable.
I am sure he was genuinely sorry at least in his own heart, about the way the Church went about Prop 8. Should he be removed? Well if he was the Church would lose. But he is getting close to 70 years old anyway. At least withing a few years of it. He will be 70 in 2012.
Course BC and Droopy will blame this on the fact that Elder Jensen is a Democrat.
I am sure he was genuinely sorry at least in his own heart, about the way the Church went about Prop 8. Should he be removed? Well if he was the Church would lose. But he is getting close to 70 years old anyway. At least withing a few years of it. He will be 70 in 2012.
Course BC and Droopy will blame this on the fact that Elder Jensen is a Democrat.