Markk wrote: The article also ignores Alma 3:6, which contridicts his opinion.
As I understand it you are a protestant. Do you take responsibility for the home burnings by protestant mobs against the Mormons? And the inciteful protestant newspapers that incited people against the Mormons? Was this christian justice in action? I love it when protestants take the high road.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
We are all bigots in one way or another. But we can all try to be less so.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
The gentiles that surronded the Mormons were bigots of the worse sort...nothing was worse than a frontier bigot. Just ask the Indians. And this bigotry was responsible for putting Joseph Smith is prison and charging him with false crimes.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
why me wrote: We are all bigots in one way or another. But we can all try to be less so.
What I find interesting is that apologists often have to appeal to the lowest common denominators to defend Mormonism. Jesus has to become a racist ratbag to defend Brigham Young.
"Let's look at the circumstances. Joseph surrendered to his enemies who then held a secret court-martial which he was not allowed to attend or even told about and he was sentenced to be shot the next day. When one honorable officer refused to allow this to happen, he was taken to jail instead. Then there was a trial where due process was denied and no witnesses for the defense were allowed. They then had a chance to escape this embarrassment to the judicial system of any free country and took it. I would have done the same thing in his condition. If the judicial system is run by barbarians why should I submit to their authority?"
Markk wrote: An article on FAIR does not negate 150 years of bigotry in denying the African race what the LDS church teaches is authority.
MG
While nothing negates past history, in the here and now racism has been repudiated and President Hinckley has added that those who practice it are not disciples of Christ.
Apparently the morgbutt does not believe that anyone knows why negroes were denied he priesthood. These jokers knew and plainly stated it was a direct commandment from God.
August 17, 1949 The attitude of the Church with reference to Negroes remains as it has always stood. It is not a matter of the declaration of a policy but of direct commandment from the Lord, on which is founded the doctrine of the Church from the days of its organization, to the effect that Negroes may become members of the Church but that they are not entitled to the priesthood at the present time. The prophets of the Lord have made several statements as to the operation of the principle. President Brigham Young said: "Why are so many of the inhabitants of the earth cursed with a skin of blackness? It comes in consequence of their fathers rejecting the power of the holy priesthood, and the law of God. They will go down to death. And when all the rest of the children have received their blessings in the holy priesthood, then that curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will then come up and possess the priesthood, and receive all the blessings which we now are entitled to."
President Wilford Woodruff made the following statement: "The day will come when all that race will be redeemed and possess all the blessings which we now have."
The position of the Church regarding the Negro may be understood when another doctrine of the Church is kept in mind, namely, that the conduct of spirits in the premortal existence has some determining effect upon the conditions and circumstances under which these spirits take on mortality and that while the details of this principle have not been made known, the mortality is a privilege that is given to those who maintain their first estate; and that the worth of the privilege is so great that spirits are willing to come to earth and take on bodies no matter what the handicap may be as to the kind of bodies they are to secure; and that among the handicaps, failure of the right to enjoy in mortality the blessings of the priesthood is a handicap which spirits are willing to assume in order that they might come to earth. Under this principle there is no injustice whatsoever involved in this deprivation as to the holding of the priesthood by the Negroes.
The First Presidency
December 15, 1969 To General Authorities, Regional Representatives of the Twelve, Stake Presidents, Mission Presidents, and Bishops.
Dear Brethren:
In view of confusion that has arisen, it was decided at a meeting of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve to restate the position of the Church with regard to the Negro both in society and in the Church.
First, may we say that we know something of the sufferings of those who are discriminated against in a denial of their civil rights and Constitutional privileges. Our early history as a church is a tragic story of persecution and oppression. Our people repeatedly were denied the protection of the law. They were driven and plundered, robbed and murdered by mobs, who in many instances were aided and abetted by those sworn to uphold the law. We as a people have experienced the bitter fruits of civil discrimination and mob violence.
We believe that the Constitution of the United States was divinely inspired, that it was produced by "wise men" whom God raised up for this "very purpose," and that the principles embodied in the Constitution are so fundamental and important that, if possible, they should be extended "for the rights and protection" of all mankind.
In revelations received by the first prophet of the Church in this dispensation, Joseph Smith (1805-1844), the Lord made it clear that it is "not right that any man should be in bondage one to another." These words were spoken prior to the Civil War. From these and other revelations have sprung the Church's deep and historic concern with man's free agency and our commitment to the sacred principles of the Constitution.
It follows, therefore, that we believe the Negro, as well as those of other races, should have his full Constitutional privileges as a member of society, and we hope that members of the Church everywhere will do their part as citizens to see that these rights are held inviolate. Each citizen must have equal opportunities and protection under the law with reference to civil rights.
However, matters of faith, conscience, and theology are not within the purview of the civil law. The first amendment to the Constitution specifically provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
The position of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints affecting those of the Negro race who choose to join the Church falls wholly within the category of religion. It has no bearing upon matters of civil rights. In no case or degree does it deny to the Negro his full privileges as a citizen of the nation.
This position has no relevancy whatever to those who do not wish to join the Church. Those individuals, we suppose, do not believe in the divine origin and nature of the church, nor that we have the priesthood of God. Therefore, if they feel we have no priesthood, they should have no concern with any aspect of our theology on priesthood so long as that theology does not deny any man his Constitutional privileges.
A word of explanation concerning the position of the Church.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints owes its origin, its existence, and its hope for the future to the principle of continuous revelation. "We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God."
From the beginning of this dispensation, Joseph Smith and all succeeding presidents of the Church have taught that Negroes, while spirit children of a common Father, and the progeny of our earthly parents Adam and Eve, were not yet to receive the priesthood, for reasons which we believe are known to God, but which He has not made fully known to man.
Our living prophet, President David O. McKay, has said, "The seeming discrimination by the Church toward the Negro is not something which originated with man; but goes back into the beginning with God....
"Revelation assures us that this plan antedates man's mortal existence, extending back to man's pre-existent state."
President McKay has also said, "Sometime in God's eternal plan, the Negro will be given the right to hold the priesthood."
Until God reveals His will in this matter, to him whom we sustain as a prophet, we are bound by that same will. Priesthood, when it is conferred on any man comes as a blessing from God, not of men.
We feel nothing but love, compassion, and the deepest appreciation for the rich talents, endowments, and the earnest strivings of our Negro brothers and sisters. We are eager to share with men of all races the blessings of the Gospel. We have no racially-segregated congregations.
Were we the leaders of an enterprise created by ourselves and operated only according to our own earthly wisdom, it would be a simple thing to act according to popular will. But we believe that this work is directed by God and that the conferring of the priesthood must await His revelation. To do otherwise would be to deny the very premise on which the Church is established.
We recognize that those who do not accept the principle of modern revelation may oppose our point of view. We repeat that such would not wish for membership in the Church, and therefore the question of priesthood should hold no interest for them. Without prejudice they should grant us the privilege afforded under the Constitution to exercise our chosen form of religion just as we must grant all others a similar privilege. They must recognize that the question of bestowing or withholding priesthood in the Church is a matter of religion and not a matter of Constitutional right.
We extend the hand of friendship to men everywhere and the hand of fellowship to all who wish to join the Church and partake of the many rewarding opportunities to be found therein.
We join with those throughout the world who pray that all of the blessings of the gospel of Jesus Christ may in due time of the Lord become available to men of faith everywhere. Until that time comes we must trust in God, in His wisdom and in His tender mercy.
Meanwhile we must strive harder to emulate His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, whose new commandment it was that we should love one another. In developing that love and concern for one another, while awaiting revelations yet to come, let us hope that with respect to these religious differences, we may gain reinforcement for understanding and appreciation for such differences. They challenge our common similarities, as children of one Father, to enlarge the out-reachings of our divine souls.
Faithfully your brethren, The First Presidency By Hugh B. Brown N. Eldon Tanner
---------------------------------
What does this have to do wtih your failure to produce Joseph Smith's arrest records?
"This is how INGORNAT these fools are!" - darricktevenson
Bow your head and mutter, what in hell am I doing here?
infaymos wrote: "Peterson is the defacto king ping of the Mormon Apologetic world."
Markk wrote: An article on FAIR does not negate 150 years of bigotry in denying the African race what the LDS church teaches is authority.
MG
While nothing negates past history, in the here and now racism has been repudiated and President Hinckley has added that those who practice it are not disciples of Christ.
Then is the Book of Mormon incorrect in teaching tht dark skin is a sign of a curse, or do you beleive the Book of Mormon is correct? It is really a simple question to understan, much harder to come to grips with and respond.
MG
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
Was Jesus a bigot? It seems so. He didn't exactly teach to the gentiles. His mission was a jewish mission, conversing with like'minded people who are culturally connected. Others had no attempt to hear his message.
And protestants were the worse bigots. Many hated jews and catholics and destroyed the indians. And not to mention the protestant south and slavery and the protestants in south africa and apartheid.
Your argument runs dry.
Try to focus Walmart, the Book of Mormon teaches that black skin at best is a sign of a curse, and at worst an actual curse.
No one is arguing past bigotry, it is a given and not an excuse for today's bigotry in the church. If you somehow believe the savior was a bigot, go ahead and throw Him under the bus in an attempt to save face for "the Church" and Joseph Smith...more proof that to some LDS Joseph Smith in more important than Jesus. Is it safe to assume that the LDS church teaches Jesus is a bigot, or is this just your opinion?
Is the Book of Mormon teaching correct or incorrect in teaching that God curses people with the sign of dark skin.
My argument is not really an argument, but a observation of a teaching that LDS members attempt to throw under the rug as if it was never taught...see Simon's comment that the LDS church does not know why the ban was in place.
I'll ask you , why was the ban instituted?
MG
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"
Markk wrote: The article also ignores Alma 3:6, which contridicts his opinion.
As I understand it you are a protestant. Do you take responsibility for the home burnings by protestant mobs against the Mormons? And the inciteful protestant newspapers that incited people against the Mormons? Was this christian justice in action? I love it when protestants take the high road.
Why would I take responsibility for something I didn't do? it would be like me asking you to take responsibility for the MH murders? But I will say those that did that were bigots, outlaws, wrong, and denounce their actions as Christian's. They should be punished and if they taught this under the banner of Christianity they are false teachers and liars...will you say the same about LDS leaders...was Brigham Young a false teacher and a Liar Why Me?
I have apologized prayerfully ( for what it is worth) to blacks for my racist past as a Mormon believing that they were less worthy than me because they were less valiant.
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"