Get Out of Jail Free Card

[_Raguel]

I was talking to someone about the discrepancies between the various versions of the accounts of the First Vision, and he pulled out the "get out of jail free" card. What?!!

Joseph Smith wrote in the account "and there were many things which transpired that cannot be written."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Vision#1832_Joseph_Smith_account

That sounded very familiar and got me thinking. I ran a search on the Book of Mormon and found the same phrase again and again (or something very close to it).

I want to get your thoughts on how far people can take this phrase to justify the missing components to the FV and the Book of Mormon, if at all.

-R

[_zeezrom]

I was talking to someone about the discrepancies between the various versions of the accounts of the First Vision, and he pulled out the "get out of jail free" card. What?!!

Joseph Smith wrote in the account "and there were many things which transpired that cannot be written."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Vision#1832_Joseph_Smith_account

That sounded very familiar and got me thinking. I ran a search on the Book of Mormon and found the same phrase again and again (or something very close to it).

I want to get your thoughts on how far people can take this phrase to justify the missing components to the FV and the Book of Mormon, if at all.

-R

I feel that if someone really saw THE GOD OF THE UNIVERSE it would be such an important experience it would dominate everything in this person's life and teachings. Looking at the Joseph Smith Papers and his other writings, I'm not seeing it. Also, I would think this God to be universal and infinite and all powerful just as the doctrine appears to claim. It does not seem consistent for this God to appear to Joseph Smith in such a questionable way - where the story changes. If God felt it was important to show himself unto his minions, he could make himself known explicitly. Otherwise, why do it?

We are supposed to take this guy's word for it? The same guy that lied about polygamy? The same guy that lied about translating Egyptian?!

[_sock puppet]

Damn it. From the thread title, I thought Raguel was perhaps one of the FP/12 and going to auction off a 2nd Annointing to someone.

[_Raguel]

Damn it. From the thread title, I thought Raguel was perhaps one of the FP/12 and going to auction off a 2nd Annointing to someone.

No, but I have some eagle eggs that will give you special powers. If come across a 2nd anointing down the road, I'll auction that off to you. How much do you think I can get for a 2nd anointing? A bowl of porridge?

[_Lucinda]

Damn it. From the thread title, I thought Raguel was perhaps one of the FP/12 and going to auction off a 2nd Annointing to someone.

I'm sure raguel could do that for you. It would mean about as much as if one of the 12 did it.

[_Raguel]

Damn it. From the thread title, I thought Raguel was perhaps one of the FP/12 and going to auction off a 2nd Annointing to someone.

I'm sure raguel could do that for you. It would mean about as much as if one of the 12 did it.

I have access to some official letterhead. Who should I make it out to?

[_The Nehor]

I feel that if someone really saw THE GOD OF THE UNIVERSE it would be such an important experience it would dominate everything in this person's life and teachings.

It did but it seems that Joseph didn't share it much with everyone. He considered it a personal experience. Early missionaries started with Moroni's visit and went from there. However, Joseph told a few friends and the story got repeated and distorted and confused with the Moroni visitations. Eventually he wrote accounts to clear up the confusion. The First Vision is important but it doesn't teach that much. Whatever Jesus told Joseph it seems most of it was for him alone. I'm okay with that.

Looking at the Joseph Smith Papers and his other writings, I'm not seeing it. Also, I would think this God to be universal and infinite and all powerful just as the doctrine appears to claim.

Yes.

It does not seem consistent for this God to appear to Joseph Smith in such a questionable way - where the story changes. If God felt it was important to show himself unto his minions, he could make himself known explicitly. Otherwise, why do it?

The story didn't change. There are no contradictions.

We are supposed to take this guy's word for it? The same guy that lied about polygamy? The same guy that lied about translating Egyptian?!

I don't take his word for it. No one in the LDS Church seems to think so either. Instead we ask the interested party to appeal to one of the persons attending the event for confirmation.

[_Inconceivable]

Damn it. From the thread title, I thought Raguel was perhaps one of the FP/12 and going to auction off a 2nd Annointing to someone.

No, but I have some eagle eggs that will give you special powers. If come across a 2nd anointing down the road, I'll auction that off to you. How much do you think I can get for a 2nd anointing? A bowl of porridge?

Porridge with chips sounds bueno.. I haven't had that since Easters.

[_zeezrom]

I don't take his word for it. No one in the LDS Church seems to think so either. Instead we ask the interested party to appeal to one of the persons attending the event for confirmation.

What other choice do we have?

How would this go down in a missionary discussion?

"Where did the Book of Mormon come from?"
"Joseph Smith said he found gold plates buried in the ground."
"Where are they today? Can I see them?"
"An angel took them back. ...So anyway, Joseph Smith talked to God and was a prophet. God restored the church through him. Joseph was a liar. In 1830, Joseph organized the COJCOLDS."

"Wait, did you just say Joseph was a liar?"
"Yeah. What's the big deal? The important thing is that this is the work of God brought to us through an imperfect man and you can know it is true by praying about it."
"You expect me to believe this crap after telling me the man who started it all was a liar?"
"Yes, I fully expect it."

[_harmony]

The First Vision is important but it doesn't teach that much.

This is just downright appalling, Nehor. The First Vision teaches the single most important concept God has ever taught man: that God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ are two separate beings. That was confused for centuries prior to the First Vision. To seek to denigrate that shows a remarkable misunderstanding of its importance.