Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids: Study

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_bcspace
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Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids: Study

Post by _bcspace »

For your consideration:

Abstract
Ten narrative studies involving family histories of 262 children of gay fathers and lesbian mothers were evaluated statistically in response to Morrison's (2007) concerns about Cameron's (2006) research that had involved three narrative studies. Despite numerous attempts to bias the results in favour of the null hypothesis and allowing for up to 20 (of 63, 32%) coding errors, Cameron's (2006) hypothesis that gay and lesbian parents would be more likely to have gay, lesbian, bisexual or unsure (of sexual orientation) sons and daughters was confirmed. Percentages of children of gay and lesbian parents who adopted non-heterosexual identities ranged between 16% and 57%, with odds ratios of 1.7 to 12.1, depending on the mix of child and parent genders. Daughters of lesbian mothers were most likely (33% to 57%; odds ratios from 4.5 to 12.1) to report non-heterosexual identities. Data from ethnographic sources and from previous studies on gay and lesbian parenting were re-examined and found to support the hypothesis that social and parental influences may influence the expression of non-heterosexual identities and/or behaviour. Thus, evidence is presented from three different sources, contrary to most previous scientific opinion, even most previous scientific consensus, that suggests intergenerational transfer of sexual orientation can occur at statistically significant and substantial rates, especially for female parents or female children. In some analyses for sons, intergenerational transfer was not significant. Further research is needed with respect to pathways by which intergenerational transfer of sexual orientation may occur. The results confirm an evolving tendency among scholars to cite the possibility of some degree of intergenerational crossover of sexual orientation.
Children of homosexuals more apt to be homosexuals? A reply to Morrison and to Cameron based on an examination of multiple sources of data.


As part of an overarching article:

"The fundamental problem with this [type of meta-analysis] is such samples tend to be biased," Goldberg tells AOL News.

Schumm says he guarded against that by seeking out so many different works. And across all his data -- the 10 books he consulted, the anthropological study, the scientific articles -- he noticed how lesbians begat more lesbians. In Schumm's study, he quotes from the extant literature the stories of young women, describing how being gay was never frowned upon in their household, and so that "option" was available to them. That said, Schumm also finds evidence of gay mothers pushing their daughters, upset over a relationship with a man, to "try out women."

But couldn't gay men also tell their sons this? Yes, but Schumm tells AOL News that most gay men have at some point been with a woman, so they understand why their sons might date them. Whereas the literature shows some lesbians "have a hatred of men that's intense," Schumm says.

Schumm says it shouldn't have taken until 2010 to do the meta-analysis. Too often his colleagues impose "liberal or progressive political interpretations" on their studies, which inhibit further inquiry. "It's kind of sad," he tells AOL News.

As if expecting a political backlash himself, Schumm concludes his study with a quote from philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer. "All truth passes through three stages: First it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
Study: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids


Of course this speaks to Packer's claim that gays aren't born that way. The Bible essentially claims the same thing in Romans 1. Ether 12:27 makes it clear that it does not matter whether or not homosexuality is inborn.
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_honorentheos
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Re: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids: Study

Post by _honorentheos »

BCSpace,

Following your link, the information included did not distinguish between children raised by gay parents versus those who were the biological offspring of one of their parents. Do you know if that is discussed in the material?

Also, Schumm makes the point that his aim is to show that identifying one's self as homosexual is not purely a biological matter. The role of "nature vs nurture" in child development are generally understood by almost all parties today to be a combination of both. I'm not sure his study will, when it is released in full, really change much if all it shows is that there is influence of nurture in addition to nature. You seem to imply he is refuting that nature is part of the equation, which does not seem to be his own claim from what I could read.
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_bcspace
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Re: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids: Study

Post by _bcspace »

The ideas of "nature vs nurture" are generally understood by almost all parties today to be a combination of both.


Schumm testifies, and I agree, that "Too often his colleagues impose liberal or progressive political interpretations on their studies, which inhibit further inquiry. So no, I don't agree that it's generally understood to be that way.

You seem to imply he is refuting that nature is part of the equation, which does not seem to be his own claim from what I could read.


I've not changed any part of his claim. But if nurture/environment plays any type of role, homosexuality is not inborn as any portion that might be also requires an environmental key to unlock it.

But kudos to you though for being the first on this board or MADB to address it (the thread on MADB has been up a little longer though).
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_schreech
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Re: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids: Study

Post by _schreech »

bcspace wrote:For your consideration:

Abstract
Ten narrative studies involving family histories of 262 children of gay fathers and lesbian mothers were evaluated statistically in response to Morrison's (2007) concerns about Cameron's (2006) research that had involved three narrative studies. Despite numerous attempts to bias the results in favour of the null hypothesis and allowing for up to 20 (of 63, 32%) coding errors, Cameron's (2006) hypothesis that gay and lesbian parents would be more likely to have gay, lesbian, bisexual or unsure (of sexual orientation) sons and daughters was confirmed. Percentages of children of gay and lesbian parents who adopted non-heterosexual identities ranged between 16% and 57%, with odds ratios of 1.7 to 12.1, depending on the mix of child and parent genders. Daughters of lesbian mothers were most likely (33% to 57%; odds ratios from 4.5 to 12.1) to report non-heterosexual identities. Data from ethnographic sources and from previous studies on gay and lesbian parenting were re-examined and found to support the hypothesis that social and parental influences may influence the expression of non-heterosexual identities and/or behaviour. Thus, evidence is presented from three different sources, contrary to most previous scientific opinion, even most previous scientific consensus, that suggests intergenerational transfer of sexual orientation can occur at statistically significant and substantial rates, especially for female parents or female children. In some analyses for sons, intergenerational transfer was not significant. Further research is needed with respect to pathways by which intergenerational transfer of sexual orientation may occur. The results confirm an evolving tendency among scholars to cite the possibility of some degree of intergenerational crossover of sexual orientation.
Children of homosexuals more apt to be homosexuals? A reply to Morrison and to Cameron based on an examination of multiple sources of data.


As part of an overarching article:

"The fundamental problem with this [type of meta-analysis] is such samples tend to be biased," Goldberg tells AOL News.

Schumm says he guarded against that by seeking out so many different works. And across all his data -- the 10 books he consulted, the anthropological study, the scientific articles -- he noticed how lesbians begat more lesbians. In Schumm's study, he quotes from the extant literature the stories of young women, describing how being gay was never frowned upon in their household, and so that "option" was available to them. That said, Schumm also finds evidence of gay mothers pushing their daughters, upset over a relationship with a man, to "try out women."

But couldn't gay men also tell their sons this? Yes, but Schumm tells AOL News that most gay men have at some point been with a woman, so they understand why their sons might date them. Whereas the literature shows some lesbians "have a hatred of men that's intense," Schumm says.

Schumm says it shouldn't have taken until 2010 to do the meta-analysis. Too often his colleagues impose "liberal or progressive political interpretations" on their studies, which inhibit further inquiry. "It's kind of sad," he tells AOL News.

As if expecting a political backlash himself, Schumm concludes his study with a quote from philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer. "All truth passes through three stages: First it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
Study: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids


Of course this speaks to Packer's claim that gays aren't born that way. The Bible essentially claims the same thing in Romans 1. Ether 12:27 makes it clear that it does not matter whether or not homosexuality is inborn.


This just in....african american parents more likely to have african american kids: no study necessary....
"your reasoning that children should be experimented upon to justify a political agenda..is tantamount to the Nazi justification for experimenting on human beings."-SUBgenius on gay parents
"I've stated over and over again on this forum and fully accept that I'm a bigot..." - ldsfaqs
_honorentheos
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Re: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids: Study

Post by _honorentheos »

bcspace wrote:
The ideas of "nature vs nurture" are generally understood by almost all parties today to be a combination of both.


Schumm testifies, and I agree, that "Too often his colleagues impose liberal or progressive political interpretations on their studies, which inhibit further inquiry. So no, I don't agree that it's generally understood to be that way.

You seem to imply he is refuting that nature is part of the equation, which does not seem to be his own claim from what I could read.


I've not changed any part of his claim. But if nurture/environment plays any type of role, homosexuality is not inborn as any portion that might be also requires an environmental key to unlock it.

That is an incredibly big jump, there BCS. You say you are not changing his claim, yet you then go completely past his nuanced interpretation to one that says in effect "Any evidence of nurture playing a role in one's self-identification as "gay" is proof that it lacks "any portion" or relation to one's innate nature."

Absurd.
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_honorentheos
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Re: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids: Study

Post by _honorentheos »

schreech wrote:This just in....african american parents more likely to have african american kids: no study necessary....


That was exactly my reaction to reading the threads title prior to reading the OP. The OP fails to clarify this, as does the linked material.
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_bcspace
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Re: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids: Study

Post by _bcspace »

This just in....african american parents more likely to have african american kids: no study necessary....


Do gay parents actually have kids in the same way as most african american parents? Knock knock....anybody home?

Absurd.


How so? If, as you already have admited, that it's a combination of factors, then no one is born gay. It takes something environmental to unlock it else there is no combination. For example, as per the study, a lesbian parent telling her duaghter to try women after an unsuccessful relationship with a man.
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Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
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_schreech
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Re: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids: Study

Post by _schreech »

bcspace wrote:[
Do gay parents actually have kids in the same way as most african american parents? Knock knock....anybody home?


Gay kids don't come out of a female vagina? Holy cow! i had no idea...does the gay stork deliver them? Lol....
"your reasoning that children should be experimented upon to justify a political agenda..is tantamount to the Nazi justification for experimenting on human beings."-SUBgenius on gay parents
"I've stated over and over again on this forum and fully accept that I'm a bigot..." - ldsfaqs
_harmony
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Re: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids: Study

Post by _harmony »

bcspace wrote:
This just in....african american parents more likely to have african american kids: no study necessary....


Do gay parents actually have kids in the same way as most african american parents? Knock knock....anybody home?


As far as I know, there is only one way to have kids. What exactly are you saying?

If, as you already have admited, that it's a combination of factors, then no one is born gay. It takes something environmental to unlock it else there is no combination. For example, as per the study, a lesbian parent telling her duaghter to try women after an unsuccessful relationship with a man.


By the same token, heterosexual parents push their children to heterosexual relationships. I'm not sure your premise shows much of anything.
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Re: Gay Parents More Likely to Have Gay Kids: Study

Post by _honorentheos »

bcspace wrote:
This just in....african american parents more likely to have african american kids: no study necessary....


Do gay parents actually have kids in the same way as most african american parents? Knock knock....anybody home?

Absurd.


How so? If, as you already have admited, that it's a combination of factors, then no one is born gay. It takes something environmental to unlock it else there is no combination. For example, as per the study, a lesbian parent telling her duaghter to try women after an unsuccessful relationship with a man.

Again, hogwash, BCSpace. You are jumping to conclusions that the linked material does not support and I would think would get a person rightly thrown out on their ear for claiming within child-development research circles.

Your argument is all inference without evidence or actual research. You see in the little information released in the abstract some sort of support for your bigoted view and jumped on it.

I'm interested in what the full study says on the subject.

Seriously, you are so ignorant of the issues that you have no idea about gay couples and biological parenthood as you imply in your response to screech?
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-53409187.html

From the link -
It's similarly impossible to say how many lesbians have given birth to children--through any means--though most observers say the boom is continuing to grow. At the Berkeley-based Sperm Bank of California, for example, demand has increased about 20% in the past six months, says executive director Maura Riordan. The bank primarily serves lesbians.


The child would share half it's DNA with the gay parent. Plus, it is raised in the same biochemical environment that makes up the mom's body and her biochemistry. Are you going to say that these people should not be allowed to have babies because they might turn an otherwise "healthy" baby to a life fraught with temptation and prone to worse sin than you are?
Last edited by Guest on Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa
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