The Church must sit on the witness stand

[_honorentheos]

Hi Zee,

I think your comments about just being happy because you don't have anything you need to explain to them is right on.

I wish you the best, and a Happy Thanksgiving!

[_zeezrom]

Jersey Girl and Liz a couple of my favs on MDB:

The whole family already knows we are not true believing any more.

But they want us to come back so they keep bringing up church stuff. We are looking for a good way to respond when/if they bring this up. We were actually thinking of writing a letter to everyone. You see, they are in the process of gossiping about us. They are making conclusions about our abilities as parents and also hurting DWs feelings. Sometimes we feel like we should explain to them why we've done what we've done but I don't think it is our responsibility to explain.

I havent given enough context here. Sorry about that.

I do think the church changed since the church was my world it was my reality. The reality has changed.

[_Hades]

When you no longer give a crap what they think or say about you, they will no longer have power over you.

[_Darth J]

When you no longer give a s*** what they think or say about you, they will no longer have power over you.

That's true, but they will also no longer be family in any meaningful sense.

When you choose to have a relationship with your family (when you're at a point in life to be able to make this choice) or with a close friend, you are choosing to give them some power over you. If you choose to maintain this kind of relationship, then you do care what their thoughts and feelings are to some extent. That's a two-way street, however, which means that people who really care about you should also respect your ceasing to believe that "the Church is true."

I feel for zeezrom's dilemma here, although I through blind luck happened not to be in a similar situation when I stopped believing in the LDS Church. I still have family and close friends who are TBM's, though. For what it's worth, I think most people who are freaking out about your eternal salvation when you become an apostate mean well, even if it's misplaced. Trying to find some balance between evangelizing and minding your own business is, I think, just one of those happily miserable parts of human dynamics, just like determining to what extent you need to explain your lack of faith while not trying to de-convert the TBM's close to you (and thus alienating people you care about) is also a balancing act.

[_msnobody]

Thoughts, you ask? A Thanksgiving to remember [inside thought bubble].

Definitely wait until the end of the get together, unless you choose a non-holiday to do it. I guess it would be better to ruin an ordinary Tuesday than Thanksgiving 2010.

Another thought is- good for you recognizing that you don't necessarily owe anyone any explanation. Sometimes I wonder why people don't just write an exit letter without going into a long drawn out explanation of why they are resigning from the church. Personally, if asked, I would lay out some of the basic problems with the church without much discussion on the topics, allowing for the listener to do some of their own research. After all, it is probably better for a person to draw the conclusion for themselves. I'd venture to say that surely someone in the family has noticed that some things just don't seem to add up. Of course, I've never been LDS or exLDS, so what do I know?

[_why me]

Thanksgiving dinner will rock! I'm making triple berry pie and hope to share a photo later...

Thoughts?

My gosh, your missionary work paid off so soon? That was fast. Not too long ago, someone was asking how to navigate a relationship with a believing husband. And I made my comments about upside down missionary work and how an unbelieving person just can't accept the spouse's belief without doing upside down missionary work to get them out of the church.

Such is freedom of expression and thought in a disbelieving spouse. It is difficult to accept the freedom of the believing spouse and their certainity.

And this is what hypocrisy is coming from embracing uncertainity and freedom. You could not accept a believing wife. Interesting from a pyschological viewpoint.

[_why me]

It is the Church that changed.

Actually, Zee, the Church hasn't changed at all. It is your perception of the Church that has changed, for better or for worse.

This is true. But most don't get it. The church actually hasn't changed but people do. People leave churches all the time. In one month, 40,000 Finnish people left their lutheran church over same sex marriage according to the AP because the lutheran church did not condone same sex marriage.

However, it seems that the lutheran church can change its course because of popular reaction. But the lds church or catholic church usually don't change because of popular demand.

[_moksha]

Thoughts?

You are making big changes, but remember Thanksgiving is a time for joy and not for bitterness and recriminations. Celebrate your joy with your family the best you can.

[_Polygamy-Porter]

However, it seems that the lutheran church can change its course because of popular reaction. But the lds church or catholic church usually don't change because of popular demand.

You really do not know LDS history do you... wow.

[_Rambo]

Hey zee good luck with everything! I have really been enjoying your posts lately because you say a lot of the things I am thinking. Right now I am studying up on how to get your family and friends out of a cult. It has been pretty interesting.

Oh and I want to try some of your Vodka pies sometime :)