Post-mo virus...

[_RockSlider]

Lucinda, Lucinda ... don't you know by now that you can leave the church but you cannot leave it alone?

It's like the second law of heaven; it's the quick and only possible consequence of your obvious fall and submission to Satan. It is now your lot in life to spend your hours in darkness and in attacking the only true church on the face of the earth. You, my dear are the enemy, the apostate, the anti-mormon.

[_Runtu]

I think that is tricky express properly. I don't have much respect for certain beliefs such as, say, Scientology. I think it's utterly ridiculous. However, I can imagine being respectful of the moral codes and actions of individual Scientologists. I might also respect their level of dedication for what they believe in as well as their sincerity if they are sincere in their beliefs. I might show my respect by being as truthful about my views as they care to know. I wouldn't lie about my views on the religion. However, if I believe some good can come out of Scientology or at least good can be a part of it, I might at least be careful not to mock those beliefs.

Exactly. If you were married to a Scientologist or close friends with a Scientologist, you would probably avoid getting in their faces about religion. And you wouldn't mock. By "respect" I mean that we respect each other's right to believe what we wish without hostility or interference from the other spouse. My wife completely disagrees with my take on Mormonism, and she thinks I am dead wrong. Obviously, I don't subscribe to her beliefs. But she and I recognize that we both honestly believe what we believe, that we think we have good reasons for our beliefs. That's good enough for both of us.

By the same token, I think many will find my beliefs to be ridiculous. I would hope that if they find individual Mormons to be worthy of respect that they too would not mock our beliefs--and not just while we're within earshot. I don't mind people telling me why they find those beliefs to be ridiculous. What I do mind is the idea that I must somehow be less intelligent or less honest if I don't agree that such things are so ridiculous they must be false or that I'm otherwise defective or lacking for even considering that such things could possibly be true. If I don't agree with someone's assessment of rational thought, am I therefore irrational? Could not one of us simply be mistaken yet both of us generally rational (I think all of us are irrational on some points)?

I've mentioned before that one of the most startling things to me after I gave myself to Satan was that people who were previously respectful toward Mormonism felt safe to share what they really thought. It wasn't pretty, and I was quite shocked.

It would be quite hypocritical of me to say I haven't mocked Mormonism. I have, and I regret it. I hope I've grown up a little in the last couple of years.

Yet I think even mocking beliefs has its place. A good political satire can sometimes be the start of me seeing things in a different light. I'm not sure that works for religion though.

It's difficult to say. Almost all of the "humor" I have written about the church has been satire, and it has almost never helped people see things in a different light. Maybe it's the motivation that counts.

[_Lucinda]

Lucinda, Lucinda ... don't you know by now that you can leave the church but you cannot leave it alone?

It's like the second law of heaven; it's the quick and only possible consequence of your obvious fall and submission to Satan. It is now your lot in life to spend your hours in darkness and in attacking the only true church on the face of the earth. You, my dear are the enemy, the apostate, the anti-mormon.

Thank you, RockSlider, for helping me see the error of my ways. But may I say, my submission to Satan was quite enjoyable. ;) I will now commune with my fellow apostates and anti-mormons.

[_RockSlider]

Lucinda, Lucinda ... don't you know by now that you can leave the church but you cannot leave it alone?

It's like the second law of heaven; it's the quick and only possible consequence of your obvious fall and submission to Satan. It is now your lot in life to spend your hours in darkness and in attacking the only true church on the face of the earth. You, my dear are the enemy, the apostate, the anti-mormon.

Thank you, RockSlider, for helping me see the error of my ways. But may I say, my submission to Satan was quite enjoyable. ;) I will now commune with my fellow apostates and anti-Mormons.

You do realize that was tounge in cheek right?

[_Lucinda]

You do realize that was tounge in cheek right?

Yes. I thought my wink at you would have conveyed that. I was raised with sarcasm and dry senses of humor--I can recognize a fellow smart a** right away. :)

[_Dr. Shades]

Why do TBM family and friends act as if we have some sort of virus? . . . [I]nstead of bearing your testimony to me constantly, how about stepping out of your fear and asking some real questions?

The answers to your questions are found at the following website:

The Believer and the Apostate

[_Lucinda]

Thanks, Dr. Shades.

Yet another frequently employed tactic is used when a believer does come into contact with an apostate, despite the careful shielding that most traditions erect. This strategy seeks to reduce the believer’s dissonance by assuming that the apostate fell away due to some unacknowledged sin, or some other flaw on the part of the former adherent. It is extremely important, for the believer’s state of mind, that the blame for the apostasy must fall squarely on the shoulders of the apostate himself. It is quite literally unthinkable that the fault could lie with the system itself. This line of reasoning must be avoided at all costs.

This paragraph seems to summarize what I'm going through with my TBMs perfectly. Very interesting article.

[_Inconceivable]

Lucinda,

I thought you might appreciate these excerpts from my letters to my former stake president and bishop the day I submitted my resignation:

to the bishop:

No doubt, my decision to leave the church will negatively affect many relationships I have been a part of over my lifetime. So far as the ward goes, I suppose it will not be much different than how I have been treated over the past 2 years - as if I never contributed, had a close friend or even existed at all. However, I would hope that the members will continue to treat my family with greater respect and dignity. They do not share my lack of belief and are deserving of better treatment than I have received.

to the SP:

I have written a short letter to (the bishop). I have requested that he might encourage the members to see to it that my family is not treated as I have been the last two years. Though some might assume them infected with my apostasy, my family (with one exception) are very much believers in the church and are deserving of and entitled to full fellowship. Unfortunately, though I have only shared my concerns with you, the bishop and the elders quorem president (at least up until 2 weeks ago), for over 2 years I had not received a visit or a call from even the friends I considered myself close to. My question is rhetorical in nature: In the eyes of the members who had no first hand knowledge of my circumstance, at what point did I make the transition from a lost sheep to a wolf? It has been quite discouraging to me to witness what I call the conditional friendship of those I had fellowshipped with for so many years - particularly in the beginning when I felt my soul was sick and I thought I needed encouragement and strengthening from my friends. That time is now past.

I still have a friendship with these men, but the statements stand on their own.

Some members that used to be my friends are less wary of myself and family now (2 years after my resig.) because they see at least from a distance that I haven't changed my peaceable character.

But I get it. People are fearful of things they truly don't understand.

But for you, BC:

You are an anti-mormon'o'phobe. Embrace your true feelings.

[_Lucinda]

Inc--Thanks for sharing your letters--I think I understand how you were feeling when you wrote them.

In the eyes of the members who had no first hand knowledge of my circumstance, at what point did I make the transition from a lost sheep to a wolf?

Very well said and a very good question. So you told a few people of your doubts and were ostracized for two years?? Nice. Very Christ-like. You weren't by chance in the ward with someone that uses the username, "bcspace" were you?

[_Inconceivable]

So you told a few people of your doubts and were ostracized for two years?? Nice. Very Christ-like. You weren't by chance in the ward with someone that uses the username, "bcspace" were you?

Thanks Lucinda,

I told the SP, bishop and EQP only about my concerns (and my bride). Just concerns, that's all. That's it. My wife kept these things to herself. I didn't want to affect anyones faith at the time anyways, but no one approached me. Someone must have jumped to conclusions before I did and passed out the daggers.

I was never this way with my friends. Ever. I've always had an anxious concern for my friend's well being. That's what friends are for in the real world.

In the church, you are assigned friends. That's one of the reasons why I think they don't really get it.