Post-mo virus...

[_Lucinda]

I told the SP, bishop and EQP only about my concerns (and my bride). Just concerns, that's all. That's it. My wife kept these things to herself. I didn't want to affect anyones faith at the time anyways, but no one approached me. Someone must have jumped to conclusions before I did and passed out the daggers.

Fear-based, knee-jerk reaction to react to concerns that way. (Not your bride, of course. Just the ward members.)

I was never this way with my friends. Ever. I've always had an anxious concern for my friend's well being. That's what friends are for in the real world.

I agree and can relate. I like to actively take part in the happiness of those closest to me. When they are sad, it makes me sad, etc. etc.

In the church, you are assigned friends. That's one of the reasons why I think they don't really get it.

That is a very good point. My last visiting teachers would just drop something by on my doorstep without even ringing the bell. My bday is in December so I got something on the doorstep in December that said, "Happy Birthday and Merry Christmas!" It was a two for one! I'm not complaining--it was always nice to be remembered. I just felt like they were checking me off of their list. Not a real, deep friendship there.

[_Inconceivable]

I was never this way with my friends. Ever. I've always had an anxious concern for my friend's well being. That's what friends are for in the real world.

I agree and can relate. I like to actively take part in the happiness of those closest to me. When they are sad, it makes me sad, etc. etc.

In the church, you are assigned friends. That's one of the reasons why I think they don't really get it.

That is a very good point. My last visiting teachers would just drop something by on my doorstep without even ringing the bell.. I just felt like they were checking me off of their list. Not a real, deep friendship there.

see, I could start a true Mormon church just by implementing stuff in the book Smith paid no attention to:

8 ..as ye are desirous to come into the fold of God, and to be called his people, and are willing to bear one another's burdens, that they may be light;
9 Yea, and are willing to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort, and to stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in, even until death, that ye may be redeemed of God, and be numbered with those of the first resurrection, that ye may have eternal life—

(Book of Mormon | Mosiah 18:8 - 9)

[_Runtu]

as ye are desirous to come into the fold of God, and to be called his people, and are [b][i]willing to bear one another's burdens, that they may be light;
9 Yea, and are [i][b]willing to mourn with those

For some reason, I'm thinking of my mother spending the last 4 months of her pregnancy with me in bed and 5 years of my being in and out of the hospital. If ever there were a burden that needed lifting, it was my faithful Mormon mother's. But no one came. No one brought meals in. No one babysat the other three children so she could be at the hospital with a sick child. No one checked on her to make sure she was doing all right.

Why? The bishop forbade the ward council from helping because, "Brother Williams is not a full tithe payer."

Sorry, but that still bugs the hell out of me. I think if I'd heard that before I left the church, I might have been even more bitter than I was.

[_Inconceivable]

Runtu,

Everyone has a story that resembles your mother's. If they say they don't, they're just not admitting it.

[_Yoda]

Runtu, this is absolutely horrible! This is absolutely not Church policy. If your father was asking for Church welfare help or help from the Bishop storehouse, then there are rules surrounding that. And even then, help is not necessarily denied. There are just commitments that the family needs to make going forward.

This was a clear case of a bishop simply acting like a jackass! I wish I had been your Mom's visiting teacher. I would have told the bishop where he could get off, and would have organized help for your Mom.

as ye are desirous to come into the fold of God, and to be called his people, and are [b][i]willing to bear one another's burdens, that they may be light;
9 Yea, and are [i][b]willing to mourn with those

For some reason, I'm thinking of my mother spending the last 4 months of her pregnancy with me in bed and 5 years of my being in and out of the hospital. If ever there were a burden that needed lifting, it was my faithful Mormon mother's. But no one came. No one brought meals in. No one babysat the other three children so she could be at the hospital with a sick child. No one checked on her to make sure she was doing all right.

Why? The bishop forbade the ward council from helping because, "Brother Williams is not a full tithe payer."

Sorry, but that still bugs the hell out of me. I think if I'd heard that before I left the church, I might have been even more bitter than I was.

[_Runtu]

Runtu, this is absolutely horrible! This is absolutely not Church policy. If your father was asking for Church welfare help or help from the Bishop storehouse, then there are rules surrounding that. And even then, help is not necessarily denied. There are just commitments that the family needs to make going forward.

This was a clear case of a bishop simply acting like a jackass! I wish I had been your Mom's visiting teacher. I would have told the bishop where he could get off, and would have organized help for your Mom.

My parents would never ask for help. They didn't know what had happened until years later when the Relief Society president told my mom she'd been carrying this terrible guilt around and needed to apologize for what had happened.

The only reason my father told me was that he thought I had left the church because I had been offended. He said that he had learned from that experience that some people just aren't good at compassion, but he doesn't hold the church as an organization responsible for one man's actions. I agree with him, but it still makes me mad that the bishop did that to my parents.

[_Lucinda]

For some reason, I'm thinking of my mother spending the last 4 months of her pregnancy with me in bed and 5 years of my being in and out of the hospital. If ever there were a burden that needed lifting, it was my faithful Mormon mother's. But no one came. No one brought meals in. No one babysat the other three children so she could be at the hospital with a sick child. No one checked on her to make sure she was doing all right.

Why? The bishop forbade the ward council from helping because, "Brother Williams is not a full tithe payer."

Sorry, but that still bugs the hell out of me. I think if I'd heard that before I left the church, I might have been even more bitter than I was.

Runtu, I'm so sorry to hear this. That is unbelievable--and I pray was and is not the norm. The bishop was an idiot--but I'm more bothered by the people who actually followed that messed up counsel.

[_why me]

Thanks, Dr. Shades.

Yet another frequently employed tactic is used when a believer does come into contact with an apostate, despite the careful shielding that most traditions erect. This strategy seeks to reduce the believer’s dissonance by assuming that the apostate fell away due to some unacknowledged sin, or some other flaw on the part of the former adherent. It is extremely important, for the believer’s state of mind, that the blame for the apostasy must fall squarely on the shoulders of the apostate himself. It is quite literally unthinkable that the fault could lie with the system itself. This line of reasoning must be avoided at all costs.

This paragraph seems to summarize what I'm going through with my TBMs perfectly. Very interesting article.

This is crap. Most members do not believe that the former member has fallen into sin. But of course it does happen. A person sins and falls away. I have seen this happen. But for most members, they really don't think why a member has fallen away. It is not a watercooler topic. Most members are into their own life and business and could not care less why a person left the lds faith.

Now for family members it may be different. But it comes from love for the family member. But the above quotation has been repeated so long that it has become postmormon folklore.

I have discovered that members can not win on this one. No matter what they do, there is often a negative connotation from the former member.

[_why me]

For some reason, I'm thinking of my mother spending the last 4 months of her pregnancy with me in bed and 5 years of my being in and out of the hospital. If ever there were a burden that needed lifting, it was my faithful Mormon mother's. But no one came. No one brought meals in. No one babysat the other three children so she could be at the hospital with a sick child. No one checked on her to make sure she was doing all right.

Why? The bishop forbade the ward council from helping because, "Brother Williams is not a full tithe payer."

Sorry, but that still bugs the hell out of me. I think if I'd heard that before I left the church, I might have been even more bitter than I was.

There can be something fishy about this story. First, who was present at the ward council when this was said and was it verified by the people present? Or did this story become family folklore by your father? And I find it hard to believe that every relief society member would obey the ward council without questioning such a poicy and still visity your mom. And what does brother williams have to do with sister williams and her needs?

That must have been a crazy ward. And have you checked with your mom about it all? But what I find amazing is that an entire church can be judeged by a few members. I suppose that I could do the same thing with the catholic church....if a catholic priest does not help me, I can condemn the entire catholic church.

[_why me]

Runtu, I'm so sorry to hear this. That is unbelievable--and I pray was and is not the norm. The bishop was an idiot--but I'm more bothered by the people who actually followed that messed up counsel.

Actually it goes farther than that. Whether or not one is a full tithe payer is not the business of the ward or the membership. For this order to put in place, all women in the relief society including Runtu's mom's friends would have to follow this order blindly. And I find this to be doubtful. Also, it sends a bad message to other ward members: if you don't pay tithing it will be blasted all over the ward when you need help.

I just don't see this working out very well in the ward. But what do I know? Stranger things have happened.