The religious experience vs. the experience of reality

[_TAO]

You should read A Clockwork Orange.

Maybe sometime.... I kinda have to do some programming soon... trying to get my first Actionscript game out.

[_Runtu]

Runtu, I have a feeling you need to learn what it is like to put trust in the Spirit. I don't expect people to want to escape because I say so. I expect them, if they would like to escape, to have recieved instruction from the Spirit.

I'm done here. I don't need you or anyone else to pass judgment on my spiritual experiences. I'm sorry I apparently misread Mark and you.

[_TAO]

Yes, essentially it becomes instinct to reject it.

Do you think the same approach can give you the instinct for heterosexual attraction? I'm really trying to understand.

Dammit, I said I was done. I'm done.

Yes, you are right here, although if that is what you focus on, it will have more has to do with the technique you use. However, if you focus on something different, you are correct.

[_Jersey Girl]

Runtu

I still maintain that a life spent trying to avoid homosexual thoughts and behaviors will be painful and possibly short.

In practice, your prediction might/might not be accurate, but it's not your decision nor is it your "walk".

I could decide today to end the sexual part of my marriage relationship and try really hard to stop having any sexual thoughts. I could fight the "temptation" and maybe even succeed in having a celibate life.

But you haven't. What TAO is addressing are those persons who have chosen to strive to extinquish homosexual behavior from their lives.

But I wonder why anyone would intentionally put themselves through that?

Assuming that I've read TAO accurately, he's discussing a person who has determined that they need to "escape the behavior". A person would intentionally do that, to "escape the behavior" that they feel, for whatever reason, isn't desireable to maintain.

As you said, a satisfying and uplifting intimate relationship is important to bonding, attachment, and commitment.

I didn't say that. I simply noted that TAO hadn't addressed bonding and attachment.

I realize that people on this board have seen less occasions on this board where I'm willing to go deeper into a topic. One of the reasons for that is this board typically resembles a wall of intellectual graffiti. I've chosen to participate in this thread because TAO is present and for no other reason than the fact that he presents well on this board.

I'd appreciate it, if you'd not put words in my keyboard that are coming from YOUR mind and not my keyboard. I didn't say anything about "satisfying and uplifting intimate relationships". I, infact, haven't begun to approach the significance or purpose of relationship nor their impact to human survival.

Which is where the attachment and bonding feature comes in.

What is the purpose for denying some people the opportunity for such a relationship?

At this juncture, we aren't discussing "denying some people" anything, Runtu. This isn't a discussion of rights, prejudice or oppression. TAO is addressing individuals who wish to change their own behavior.

Seems to me the impetus for gays becoming celibate or minimally procreational comes not from gay people themselves but from other people telling them their thoughts and feelings--not just the behavior--are wrong and should be overcome.

With all due respect, Runtu, TAO isn't discussing the WHY, but the HOW it might be possible.

[_TAO]

Runtu, I have a feeling you need to learn what it is like to put trust in the Spirit. I don't expect people to want to escape because I say so. I expect them, if they would like to escape, to have recieved instruction from the Spirit.

I'm done here. I don't need you or anyone else to pass judgment on my spiritual experiences. I'm sorry I apparently misread Mark and you.

Na, be at peace Runtu. Wasn't talking of your experiences. Merely saying that their spiritual experiences are the only thing that can drive them to a true willpower. People alone can't create a genuine willpower usually.

[_Jersey Girl]

Runtu, I have a feeling you need to learn what it is like to put trust in the Spirit. I don't expect people to want to escape because I say so. I expect them, if they would like to escape, to have recieved instruction from the Spirit.

I'm done here. I don't need you or anyone else to pass judgment on my spiritual experiences. I'm sorry I apparently misread Mark and you.

And yet, in your dismissal of TAO's comment above, YOU are passing judgment on his in return.

Get back up on the horse, Runtu. This doesn't need to get personal.

I make a damn fine coach, don't you think?

:-D

[_Runtu]

And yet, in your dismissal of TAO's comment above, YOU are passing judgment on his in return.

Get back up on the horse, Runtu. This doesn't need to get personal.

I make a damn fine coach, don't you think?

:-D

I'm 3 for 3 today in misreading people. I'll add you to the list.

I probably shouldn't participate in discussions that are intensely personal for me, as this one is. But, no, I really don't need anyone telling me I need to learn to follow the Spirit.

[_Jersey Girl]

And yet, in your dismissal of TAO's comment above, YOU are passing judgment on his in return.

Get back up on the horse, Runtu. This doesn't need to get personal.

I make a damn fine coach, don't you think?

:-D

I'm 3 for 3 today in misreading people. I'll add you to the list.

I probably shouldn't participate in discussions that are intensely personal for me, as this one is. But, no, I really don't need anyone telling me I need to learn to follow the Spirit.

Well...if you take a moment to engage in some perspective taking (walk the mile in others moc's) you would see that LDS on this board also don't need anyone telling them the Spirit is crap either.

Shoe/other foot and all that.

[_Runtu]

Well...if you take a moment to engage in some perspective taking (walk the mile in others moc's) you would see that LDS on this board also don't need anyone telling them the Spirit is crap either.

Shoe/other foot and all that.

I have never in my life said any such thing and would not. Spiritual experiences are personal and no one else's business. When anyone, LDS or not, shares a spiritual experience, I take it at face value. If TAO is saying his attitude about sexuality came from a spiritual experience, more power to him.

I see sexual orientation the same way. If someone wants to try to suppress their sexuality, they can do as they wish.

[_Jersey Girl]

Runtu,

Somewhere on this thread, you indicated that someone close to you has Aspergers. I'm assuming that in their communication, that person faces instances where their communication is misunderstood or where they misunderstand the intentions of others.

Take a few steps back and try not to take what TAO says personally. He may not intend it the way you are "feeling" it.