Half of members would like to return to polygamy?

[_just me]

I have to take it on faith that the Atonement is impotent against certain sins that you believe only men get involved in.

You could also look to see murder stats, rape stats, etc, if you wished. But they aren't necessarily a good representation of all time.

How would that show that God is unable to forgive those people?

I also have to take it on faith that men suck worse than women, therefore leading to more women in the Celestial Kingdom.

Yep we do. I don't think I have to explain that one - if you want more information on it, talk to your wife. She could provide some pretty good examples, I am sure.

Actually, TAO, I am a woman. I am a wife and a mother. I disagree most fervently that women are superior to men. I also disagree with the concept that men are in any way superior to women.

Oh, and men suck worse but God wants them to be the leaders over the women anway.

I remember a verse saying that men should be to their wives as Christ is to the church? Christ is certainly the leader of the church, but I think most people would like his leadership, wouldn't they?

This is sexist and offensive. If men suck worse how can they be Christ for the wife? WTF? Seriously? Women do not need a man between them and God.

Men suck worse, but God wants women to submit to them.

And God wants men to serve women to an utter degree of humility.

Then why does he want women to submit to the man?

Men suck worse, but God wants to pierce the hearts of his daughters with deep wounds by making them practice polygamy.

God wants all his children to be happy, and I think up there, we will be very sad for our brothers and sister which didn't make it to where we did.

If God will not grant eternal life to single people why in heaven's name would ANYONE want to be with him? He sounds like a jerk.
Oh, and there is no place in the scriptures outside of D&C 132 that says marriage is required for eternal life. In fact, there are scriptures that indicate it is not.

by the way, the story of the woman in heaven who Jesus offers to the couple disgusts me. Why is God so impotent that he can't give eternal life to whomever he wants?

God is impotent, in that he can use his power for anything, but he is bound by his own wills and promises. Exaltation is not something you can have as an individual - it only exists when two become one. Eternal Life he can give to all who follow him, but exaltation takes two who follow him. It is something greater than eternal life. It is the embodiment of love and sacrifice to the utter end. Only those who truly wish to love and sacrifice though that degree though, will be able to have it.

And... I do not see why the story disgusts you. Jesus isn't offering the women. Jesus is asking the couple, to allow this beautiful spirit daughter of God to be able to participate in exaltation. He's asking. Not Offering. He isn't giving you something. He's asking you to do something.

Please show me where you are getting your definitions of "eternal life" and "exaltation." The church teaches that they are the same thing. They teach that salvation is available to all people and that eternal life/exaltation is having offspring for eternity and attached to marriage.

Here you are playing a semantics game. I am disgusted that the woman is not seen as whole on her own. I am disgusted that your god cannot save a woman or a man on their own. I am disgusted that women are treated as less than and property and then told that they are "better" than men. I am truly sickened by it and I hope I get my kids away from this kind of nonsense ASAP.

[_cafe crema]

Since I am the one in this conversation between you and I who has actually had children, multiple times, I think I'm a bit more qualified than you are.

I've never taken experience as a reason not to voice my opinion as valuable, and I'm not going to start now.

I've never taken lack of experience as a reason to accept an opinion as valuable.

You realize, of course, that you just marginalized every father who ever existed?

Yep. Fatherhood is really about service, actually. We are happy when our wife is happy.

I've noticed a very low opinion of fatherhood among LDS posters both men and women on the MAD board. I find this disrespect of fatherhood less than admirable.

Because God is no respector of persons. God does not love his sons more than he loves his daughters (which is why I have grave reservations about the LDS priesthood claims).

And yet, then why does he assign different amount of trials to different people? He is not a respecter of persons is he? No - he assigns what is best for the people, though it may be different between one person and another person. Just because you have been given one capability, and your neighbor another, and you view your capability as useless does not mean that God is a respector of persons.

I don't believe God assigns trials to people.

God does not love his spirit daughters more than his spirit sons - he wishes for them all to be happy? Now how, may I ask, would he make them all happy if those who deserved exaltation did not receive it because there was not a spouse to take them?

Which is why marriage is not required to be a joint heir with Christ.

I point you to the Atonement.

I point to you out that the Atonement, though it may lead to exaltation, does not have to do with the state of existence of exaltation. You still have not shown me what makes you believe why it will not exist up there, if it is for completing the purposes of justice.

So Christ is no longer your Savior once you become exhalted.

[_TAO]

I've never taken lack of experience as a reason to accept an opinion as valuable.

Yep, we'll just ignore experience.

I've noticed a very low opinion of fatherhood among LDS posters both men and women on the MAD board. I find this disrespect of fatherhood less than admirable.

It's not necessarily a a low opinion - it's just that we feel that it should be performed in meekness, mildness, and humbleness; there should be no pride to the office.

I don't believe God assigns trials to people.

I believe he does. The scriptures say he limits your trials to what you can overcome, do they not? It is a bit of a jump, but it is one that I have made.

Which is why marriage is not required to be a joint heir with Christ.

For LDS it is required for exaltation.

So Christ is no longer your Savior once you become exhalted.

No, Christ is always your savior. It has to do with what the purpose of exaltation is - spirit creation and a continuation of your seed for ever and ever. That is why a man and a woman are required.

[_cafe crema]

I've never taken lack of experience as a reason to accept an opinion as valuable.

Yep, we'll just ignore experience.

Nope not what I said.

I've noticed a very low opinion of fatherhood among LDS posters both men and women on the MAD board. I find this disrespect of fatherhood less than admirable.

It's not necessarily a a low opinion - it's just that we feel that it should be performed in meekness, mildness, and humbleness; there should be no pride to the office.

Nope it is definitely a low opinion of fatherhood, fatherhood is a distant second to the priesthood and it's attendant power. Office? Fatherhood as office, I've never heard any one phrase it that way, that's just cold.

I don't believe God assigns trials to people.

I believe he does. The scriptures say he limits your trials to what you can overcome, do they not? It is a bit of a jump, but it is one that I have made.

Well as they say that's quite a leap.

Which is why marriage is not required to be a joint heir with Christ.

For LDS it is required for exaltation.

And it's quite obvious from your little story about the couple that this is well, a pack of nonsense.

So Christ is no longer your Savior once you become exhalted.

No, Christ is always your savior. It has to do with what the purpose of exaltation is - spirit creation and a continuation of your seed for ever and ever. That is why a man and a woman are required.

Well if the Atonement "does not have to do with the state of existence of exaltation" then the savior who brought about the exaltation also "does not have to do with the state of existence of exaltation".

[_Fiannan]

Again, polygamy opponents have not answered the question as to what gives them the right to dictate to women who might choose polygamy why those women need to be protected from their own free-will.

[_drdrfor]

[Would like to see the research on this. I think it is his made up wish and hope. ~td~

73.8% of all statistics are made up.

[_Hades]

Again, polygamy opponents have not answered the question as to what gives them the right to dictate to women who might choose polygamy why those women need to be protected from their own free-will.

If you would really like to get a woman's perspective on polygamy then read this, Exposé of polygamy in Utah : A lady's life among the Mormons. It would also be a good read for TAO or anyone who needs to see the reality of polygamy through the eyes of a woman. I don't see women clamoring to live polygamy. You will get some who will agree to live it if you convince them that God wants them to. Polygamy was dreamed up by men and it's men who would like to keep it alive.

[_Fiannan]

Hades, you speak for all women? Think about that for a moment. Some women are into group sex, most aren't, but some are. Some women like sex with other women, some have little urge to be with a man or woman, some like guys who are really older, some women like younger guys, some are career women, some are stay-at-home types, some like porn, some hate porn, some would like to be pregnant 24/7, some hate the idea of having kids -- and finally some like Edward, some Jakob and some Alice.


Thing I want to get across is that there are as many opinions as there are women. To say that women cannot legally choose to share a man displays a view that women are not capable of making their own choices beyond what society says they should.

Also, for every tale about how bad life can be in polygamy I can find hundreds of women who will gripe about their lives in monogamy. What I would like is for an educated, intelligent woman who chose to live in polygamy to write a book about her experiences...but, alas, to do so could expose her husband and family to some district attoourney wanting to make a name for himself by prosecuting a polygamist.

[_Hades]

Fiannan, I'm trying to point out that women are people. They have thoughts and feelings like men do. Women are no more thrilled about sharing their man, than men are about sharing their woman. Harmony made an excellent point when she asked why it's cool for men to have a harem and it's not cool for women to have a harem. You came back with something about women picking up dirty socks. Your view of women leaked out for all to see. To you women are dirty sock picker-upers. I view women as something more than the domesticated possessions of men. I personally like strong women. The kind who will pick up your dirty socks and then smack you up side the head with them and tell you to take care of your crap. Strong men like strong women. Weak men like subservient women.

Polygamy is the excuse men use to have more than one woman. They make it seem like God wants it so. You want to have more than one woman. I get that. I'm saying don't blame it on God. You are also saying that there are women out there who want you to have them. So you are also blaming your desires on women. I'm saying, cut the crap, it's your desire you are trying to feed. Just go out and sleep around. Get it out of your system and quit trying to justify it.

[_zeezrom]

Fiannan,

Are u doing all this in a desperate attempt to make Mormonism seem true or do you really have a desire for greater diversity in sexual practices?