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A challenge to those who view as historical the events as described in 1 Nephi Chapter 4. This is for those who honestly believe that God would command a beheading.

Please, as you watch this, keep in mind that these men believe they have been commanded by the God of Abraham to do these things.

Modern Day Nephi and Laban?

As you watched, did you feel the spirit, knowing that these men were acting in God's name? Now imagine Nephi doing the same thing. Can you bring yourself to still believe that God commanded it?

I didn't think so.

beefcalf wrote:A challenge to those who view as historical the events as described in 1 Nephi Chapter 4. This is for those who honestly believe that God would command a beheading.

Please, as you watch this, keep in mind that these men believe they have been commanded by the God of Abraham to do these things.

Modern Day Nephi and Laban?

As you watched, did you feel the spirit, knowing that these men were acting in God's name? Now imagine Nephi doing the same thing. Can you bring yourself to still believe that God commanded it?

I didn't think so.

That god is so full of love. Maybe one day the Mormons will carry out god's love that way--oh, wait, blood atonement. It already has.

beefcalf wrote:A challenge to those who view as historical the events as described in 1 Nephi Chapter 4. This is for those who honestly believe that God would command a beheading.

That would be me.

Please, as you watch this, keep in mind that these men believe they have been commanded by the God of Abraham to do these things.

Okay.

Modern Day Nephi and Laban?

Hmmm....

As you watched, did you feel the spirit, knowing that these men were acting in God's name?

No.

Now imagine Nephi doing the same thing.

I imagine there was only one body but okay.

Can you bring yourself to still believe that God commanded it?

Yes.

I didn't think so.

But I said Yes!?!

So, The Nehor, you did not feel the spirit when watching a modern day beheading? But you still feel the spirit when you think about Nephi and Laban? Or is it that you don't feel the spirit necessarily, but you believe it anyway?

I think that if your God exists, I am passing some sort of test by rejecting these horrific teachings.

More information from the uploader:

"This video, dated 1999 and filmed in Dagestan, shows the brutal execution of six Russian conscripts at the hands of Chechen rebels lead by Salautdin Temirbulatov.

The Chechen gang led by Temirbulatov, crossed into Dagestan with about 250-500 fighters, the village was protected by 13 lightly armed Russian conscripts. Upon realising they could not possibly defeat so many enemies 7 of the conscripts ran away and the remaining 6 surrendered after running out of ammunition and being promised POW status.

Temirbulatov's group was decimated few months after the filming of this video. Each of the Chechens seen in the video have been either captured or killed by Sulim Yamadayev and his forces or by the Spetsnaz. Temirbulatov was himself arrested on March 20, 2000." http://www.albertastars.com/posts.php?forum=16&topic=2983

Temirbulatov pleaded guilty to killing the 32-year-old Mitryayev, a contract soldier who joined up to fight in Chechnya for the money. The Chechen denied the other charges.

During the trial, Temirbulatov cited in his defense the ancient tradition of blood feud, which still exists in Chechnya. http://articles.latimes.com/2001/feb/16/news/mn-26155/2

I would be interested in your opinion of how the event described in 1 Nephi 4 and the story behind this video are in anyway comparable. Both have beheading. That seems to me where it ends. Can you provide any information showing these rebels thought they were commanded by the God of Abraham?

beefcalf wrote:So, The Nehor, you did not feel the spirit when watching a modern day beheading?

Not that one, no.

But you still feel the spirit when you think about Nephi and Laban?

I have, not always.

Or is it that you don't feel the spirit necessarily, but you believe it anyway?

No, not really.

I think that if your God exists, I am passing some sort of test by rejecting these horrific teachings.

What horrific teachings?

Here's a question for those that believe in mystical experience as a method for apprehending the truth of a matter or of apprehending what God wants one to do. First, consider your most powerful spiritual experience. Also, consider whatever content that you believe that that spiritual experience came packaged with. The content might have been that some claim or other made by the Church is true. Or, the content might have been that you ought to do some such activity. For example, perhaps you had a powerful spiritual experience while praying about whether Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus, and by that experience God confirmed to you that it's true that Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus (this is what I mean by 'the content of a spiritual experience').

Now, I want you to imagine that you have an experience qualitatively identical to the spiritual experience I just asked you to call to your mind. However, instead of the content being something like that Joseph Smith is a prophet, or that you ought to take cookies to your non-Mormon neighbor; the content is that you should behead the mayor of your city. The mayor, you've heard for a while, is suspected of being corrupt. Would you behead the mayor of your city? Yes or no?

brade wrote:Here's a question for those that believe in mystical experience as a method for apprehending the truth of a matter or of apprehending what God wants one to do. First, consider your most powerful spiritual experience. Also, consider whatever content that you believe that that spiritual experience came packaged with. The content might have been that some claim or other made by the Church is true. Or, the content might have been that you ought to do some such activity. For example, perhaps you had a powerful spiritual experience while praying about whether Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus, and by that experience God confirmed to you that it's true that Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus (this is what I mean by 'the content of a spiritual experience').

Now, I want you to imagine that you have an experience qualitatively identical to the spiritual experience I just asked you to call to your mind. However, instead of the content being something like that Joseph Smith is a prophet, or that you ought to take cookies to your non-Mormon neighbor; the content is that you should behead the mayor of your city. The mayor, you've heard for a while, is suspected of being corrupt. Would you behead the mayor of your city? Yes or no?

If his bosom burned, Simon would.

brade wrote:Here's a question for those that believe in mystical experience as a method for apprehending the truth of a matter or of apprehending what God wants one to do. First, consider your most powerful spiritual experience. Also, consider whatever content that you believe that that spiritual experience came packaged with. The content might have been that some claim or other made by the Church is true. Or, the content might have been that you ought to do some such activity. For example, perhaps you had a powerful spiritual experience while praying about whether Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus, and by that experience God confirmed to you that it's true that Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus (this is what I mean by 'the content of a spiritual experience').

Okay.

Now, I want you to imagine that you have an experience qualitatively identical to the spiritual experience I just asked you to call to your mind. However, instead of the content being something like that Joseph Smith is a prophet, or that you ought to take cookies to your non-Mormon neighbor; the content is that you should behead the mayor of your city.

Okay.

The mayor, you've heard for a while, is suspected of being corrupt.

Okay.

Would you behead the mayor of your city? Yes or no?

Neither, I'd need more information. I would not want to do it so I would need some kind of explanation like the Spirit gave to Nephi for why it must happen. I would also ask why a bullet wouldn't serve equally well.

Neither, I'd need more information. I would not want to do it so I would need some kind of explanation like the Spirit gave to Nephi for why it must happen. I would also ask why a bullet wouldn't serve equally well.

Let me modify the story to try to resolve some of your concerns. Instead of the content including the imperative that you ought to behead the mayor, the content includes the imperative that you ought to kill the mayor as soon as possible. In addition to the content that you ought to kill the mayor as soon as possible, the content also includes an explanation for why you ought to do it. The explanation goes something like this: If you don't kill the mayor as soon as possible, then he will swindle the Church in a way that will hurt the Church's reputation and give people reason not to accept the gospel, and, also, if you don't kill the mayor, then you are an unfaithful servant and not worthy of a place in God's kingdom. Remember, the phenomenology of the experience is identical in every way to the most powerful spiritual experience you have actually had in real life. The content, however, is different. Again, would you kill the mayor? Yes or no?