The List of Incongruence of COTPOTCOJCOLDS and the Book of Mormon

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_Darth J
_Emeritus
Posts: 13392
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:16 am

Re: The List of Incongruence of COJCOLDS and the Book of Mormon

Post by _Darth J »

Praying to Jesus:

The typical defender of the faith response is to equivocate between "worship" and "prayer." I am talking specifically about saying prayers to Jesus.

The Book of Mormon wrote:
17 And it came to pass that as I was thus racked with torment, while I was harrowed up by the memory of my many sins, behold, I remembered also to have heard my father prophesy unto the people concerning the coming of one Jesus Christ, a Son of God, to atone for the sins of the world.

18 Now, as my mind caught hold upon this thought, I cried within my heart: O Jesus, thou Son of God, have mercy on me, who am bin the gall of bitterness, and am encircled about by the everlasting chains of death.

19 And now, behold, when I thought this, I could remember my pains no more; yea, I was harrowed up by the memory of my sins no more.

Alma 36:17-19

And it came to pass that she went and took the queen by the hand, that perhaps she might raise her from the ground; and as soon as she touched her hand she arose and stood upon her feet, and cried with a loud voice, saying: O blessed Jesus, who has saved me from an awful hell! O blessed God, have mercy on this people!

Alma 19:29

15 And it came to pass that while the angels were ministering unto the disciples, behold, Jesus came and stood in the midst and ministered unto them.

16 And it came to pass that he spake unto the multitude, and commanded them that they should kneel down again upon the earth, and also that his disciples should kneel down upon the earth.

17 And it came to pass that when they had all knelt down upon the earth, he commanded his disciples that they should pray.

18 And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and their God.

3 Nephi 19:15-18

Note: The typical defender of the faith response is that this was okay because Jesus was physically present. However, that explanation fails to account for other instances in the Book of Mormon where prophets/believers prayed to Jesus when he was not physically present.


I am also aware that the Book of Mormon also teaches that we should pray to the Father in the name of Jesus. I do not dispute that there is an inconsistency.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints wrote:
Young Women Resource Guide 2011 for Manual 3, (2010)

Note to teachers: In discussing our Savior and His role in our lives, please make sure young women understand that we pray to God, our Father in Heaven, that we pray to Him in the name of Jesus Christ, and that we do not pray to Jesus Christ.

Book of Mormon Student Manual, page 320

3 Nephi 19:18, 22. “They Did Pray unto Jesus”
• There is no place in scripture where we are taught to pray to Jesus. In this unique instance, however,
the disciples offered prayers to the Son instead of the Father. Elder Bruce R. McConkie suggested a
reason this may have occurred: “There was a special reason why this was done in this instance and on a
onetime basis. Jesus had already taught them to pray in his name to the Father, which they first did. . . .
Jesus was present before them as the symbol of the Father. Seeing him, it was as though they saw the
Father; praying to him, it was as though they prayed to the Father. It was a special and unique situation”
(The Promised Messiah: The First Coming of Christ [1978], 560–61). It should also be noted that the Savior
specifically stated that the people were praying to Him on this occasion because, as He said, “I am with them” (3 Nephi 19:22). Furthermore, on this occasion “they did not multiply many words, for it was given unto
them what they should pray” (3 Nephi 19:24)


Umm, no. There are two other places in the Book of Mormon that I can think of where people are approvingly reported as praying to Jesus. In D&C 109:34, Joseph Smith prays to Jehovah (if anyone wants to allow that Joseph Smith had not decided at that point that Jehovah was Jesus, I will not dispute it). And many Christians interpret the Bible as instructing us to pray to Jesus. Here's one example: http://www.Bible.ca/ntx-praying-to-jesus.htm

So ex-nay "no place in scripture where we are taught to pray to Jesus," and the Book of Mormon does give examples of believers praying to Jesus, which is a big taboo in the modern LDS Church.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
_sock puppet
_Emeritus
Posts: 17063
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:52 pm

Re: The List of Incongruence of COJCOLDS and the Book of Mormon

Post by _sock puppet »

Runtu wrote:
Buffalo wrote:It depends on what your definition of "are" is.


I was just thinking that the apologists are not teaching that anymore, but I think the church still is.

Didn't the FP/12 get DCP's memo on that?
_Darth J
_Emeritus
Posts: 13392
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:16 am

Re: The List of Incongruence of COJCOLDS and the Book of Mormon

Post by _Darth J »

Further on praying to Jesus:

The Community of Christ (fka Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) accepts the Book of Mormon as scripture (and the Doctrine and Covenants). The COC allows prayer directly to Jesus (the website is going to have a bunch of weird highlights because this hyperlink is to a cached site).
_Brackite
_Emeritus
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:12 am

Re: The List of Incongruence of COJCOLDS and the Book of Mormon

Post by _Brackite »

There is Not anywhere, Within the Pages of the Book of Mormon where we read about anyone getting married inside a Temple.
Yet, Here is what the late 13th LDS President, Ezra Taft Benson, Stated:

Understand that temple marriage is essential to your salvation and exaltation.


(HyperLink:)
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter
_sock puppet
_Emeritus
Posts: 17063
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:52 pm

Re: The List of Incongruence of COJCOLDS and the Book of Mormon

Post by _sock puppet »

Brackite wrote:There is Not anywhere, Within the Pages of the Book of Mormon where we read about anyone getting married inside a Temple.
Yet, Here is what the late 13th LDS President, Ezra Taft Benson, Stated:

Understand that temple marriage is essential to your salvation and exaltation.


(HyperLink:)

The Mormon god must not have wanted the Book of Mormon people to have all the saving ordinances. Maybe they are expendable to the Mormon god.
_Nightlion
_Emeritus
Posts: 9899
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 8:11 pm

Re: The List of Incongruence of COJCOLDS and the Book of Mormon

Post by _Nightlion »

sock puppet wrote:COTPOTCOJCOLDS

Church of the Prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Right?
The Apocalrock Manifesto and Wonders of Eternity: New Mormon Theology
https://www.docdroid.net/KDt8RNP/the-apocalrock-manifesto.pdf
https://www.docdroid.net/IEJ3KJh/wonders-of-eternity-2009.pdf
My YouTube videos:HERE
_sock puppet
_Emeritus
Posts: 17063
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:52 pm

Re: The List of Incongruence of COJCOLDS and the Book of Mormon

Post by _sock puppet »

Nightlion wrote:
sock puppet wrote:COTPOTCOJCOLDS

Church of the Prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Right?

Nightlion, you've proved Moroni's challenge again. The acronym for the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints--COTPOTCOJCOLDS--has caused you a stupor of thought. Proof that COTPOTCOJCOLDS is not true!
Post Reply