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Well, if even Will doesn't support Gee's honest mistake, I can't imagine anyone would attempt to rebut what Kevin wrote.

You're too charitable Runtu.

This wasn't an honest mistake.

How in the world could it be?

Kevin Graham wrote:You're too charitable Runtu.

This wasn't an honest mistake.

How in the world could it be?

I need a way to indicate sarcasm better. Perhaps I should have written "honest mistake."

Of course it wasn't an honest mistake.

Anything short of calling it a flat out lie, is still too charitable. I know apologists hate me for saying this, but I've pointed out time and time again that their preferred sources regularly refer to critics as dishonest liars and they never once complain about it.

OP was great. Would read again.

Anyone have links to other substantive posts on Book of Abraham apologetics?

Just adding my two cents worth that this was a great thread. Kevin Graham, your research is powerful because it's just so to the point. VERY interesting to read about all this.

For those who can access MAD, there was a similar thread there that got pretty ridiculous after wade englund accused me of lying about what Gee said. I had to do some screen shots of the presentation to prove him wrong, at which point he shifted his ground again.

Chomsky wrote:OP was great. Would read again.

Anyone have links to other substantive posts on Book of Abraham apologetics?

Oh there are probably dozens, but here are a few of my favorites:


The Missing Scroll Theory

Schryver loses his mojo

Will Schryver: Kneel before Zod

Kirtland Egyptian Papers: Redux

The GAEL/Papyri Relationship

I've posted as Xander and Dartagnan in some of these threads.

Kevin Graham wrote:

Chomsky wrote:OP was great. Would read again.

Anyone have links to other substantive posts on Book of Abraham apologetics?

Oh there are probably dozens, but here are a few of my favorites:


The Missing Scroll Theory

Schryver loses his mojo

Will Schryver: Kneel before Zod

Kirtland Egyptian Papers: Redux

The GAEL/Papyri Relationship

I've posted as Xander and Dartagnan in some of these threads.

Thanx. Kevin, I checked my flash drive I was missing about half of these.

Oh, can't forget this one:

Why Gee and Nibley cannot be trusted

Or this one:

KEP Debate in Pundits

Or this one:

Why Schryver's apologetics cannot be trusted

And especially this one:

Will Schryver's Deception in Pundits


If you go to the MAD forum and look at the archives under Book of Abraham you'll see an old thread I started back in May 2006 called "Book of Abraham." That was the last year I referred to myself as an apologist, and it was the beginning of a long drawn out exchange that lasted through the next few years. It was during that initial exchange that Will Schryver revealed just how ignorant he was of these materials. For example, he didn't know that the KEP were written in the handwriting of Smith's scribes, and he also thought the Kirtland Egyptian Papers (KEP) referred to the Egyptian papyri. When I pointed out his ignorance, he laughably insisted that I was just a lying anti-Mormon and that he knew exactly what they were because he had "thoroughly examined" them as well as anyone ever had. LOL.

The reason this was so funny is because the KEP were not available for examination at the time and here was Will pretending to be an expert. Hell even John Gee hadn't been given access at the time. So, Will quickly realized he was out of his depth and started to back off with the rhetoric and decided to watch the debate from the sidelines as I engaged Brian Hauglid (posting as Al Ghazali). Schryver then contacted me privately and tried to "BRT" with me by acting like he and I were essentially in agreement with the problems the evidence presents, even going so far as to say he would never accept the Book of Abraham as scripture if he didn't already begin with that presupposition. I addressed some of this in the thread linked above, "kneel before Zod" and Will's response was to essentially suggest I lied about the email he sent me.

He also claimed to be an independent filmmaker (which turned out to be false) and was trying to interview me and a few other critics for some kind of documentary. Like most of Will's apologetic aspirations, that never panned out. Here is a thread covering that in more detail.

Wow, great! Thanks Kevin Graham. This will provide some interesting leisurely reading.