Who Cares?

[_Themis]

As I said, for many of us, it is important. I'm just saying that for others the history and origins of the church aren't important, and it's impossible and counterproductive to try and "make" them understand how things are.

Which is why I think similar to you and don't talk about it unless they want to. If they don't want to hear or don't care about it, then it's just fine with me.

[_stemelbow]

You think people would be more curious about the man who has done more for the salvation of men than any other man, save Jesus only. But I have to keep reminding myself about what's important in life: what color shirt I wear on Sundays, how many earrings my wife and daughter have, and not playing penny poker. I'm glad these people exist to point out the obvious to me. I mean here I am trying to understand God, life, death, the universe, meaning, redemption, good, evil, etc. I mean who cares about that stuff? I'm such a dumbass.

Whose to say this dude isn't here to understand God, life, death, the universe, meaning, redemption, good, evil, etc? Perhaps that is his focus and thus why he is not so concerned about Joseph Smith' marriage life? I know you think you know, but really who knows?

[_sock puppet]

You think people would be more curious about the man who has done more for the salvation of men than any other man, save Jesus only. But I have to keep reminding myself about what's important in life: what color shirt I wear on Sundays, how many earrings my wife and daughter have, and not playing penny poker. I'm glad these people exist to point out the obvious to me. I mean here I am trying to understand God, life, death, the universe, meaning, redemption, good, evil, etc. I mean who cares about that stuff? I'm such a dumbass.

Whose to say this dude isn't here to understand God, life, death, the universe, meaning, redemption, good, evil, etc? Perhaps that is his focus and thus why he is not so concerned about Joseph Smith' marriage life? I know you think you know, but really who knows?

In evaluating the truth claims that tumbled out of JSJr's mouth, how can you not evaluate his character in coming to a conclusion about the veracity of those claims?

[_stemelbow]

We will probably not agree on what I believe makes Mormonism false.

Good point. Here's my take on all of this. All religion has truth in it, even the atheist religion--if anyone here allows me to call it that. And all religions have some amount of falsehood in them. My goodness they are practiced and defined by those who are their adherers afterall, and adherers are prone to err at some point. If we are to define one religion as true, or hope to find one as true, then we must define what it is to say a religion is true, particularly in light of my assumptions/premise. At some point in all of this conclusions are drawn by the person who as I said is not totally objective. If the actions of the originator of the religion is not the actual arbiter of which religion is true, then what is? Its teachings? What amount of a religion's teachings must be true in order for it to be the true religion in comparison to the others? I rightly don't know what your take is on such questions.

No one is saying Joseph, the founder, did "only good or only bad in his life." Surely you don't mean that.

I most certainly did not say such.

[_stemelbow]

Pretend that you had no religion and were trying to decide on one to follow, why would you choose one that was created by a man that was a proven liar?

It seems to me that it would disqualify that one immediately.

let's think of a religion that was started by a man that was not a proven liar. Which one are you thinking of if any?

[_sock puppet]

Pretend that you had no religion and were trying to decide on one to follow, why would you choose one that was created by a man that was a proven liar?

It seems to me that it would disqualify that one immediately.

let's think of a religion that was started by a man that was not a proven liar. Which one are you thinking of if any?

Are you trying to make the atheists' point, stemelbow?

[_stemelbow]

I never expected Joseph to be perfect contrary to many apologists

Who are these many apologists who expect Joseph Smith to be perfect?

, but I, and most members, think that God would choose one who is better then the average person. Joseph was looking for treasure for money as a kid. I think even from the beginning we can see that Joseph would probably not be a good choice for God.

this si really a debated issue. But oh well. Even if Joseph Smith was nothing but a treasure seeker as a kid, then it really would not stand to reason that he is a worse person then another, or the average.

I have a hard time thinking that there has not been some very good faithful people who God could have worked with much better then what we get with Joseph Smith.

Easy to conclude when one finds reasons to conclude Joseph Smith was bad or below average. But keep in mind after viewing all the available evidence you have there are still plenty who see Joseph Smith as better than average. its the conclusions that differ. Let's at least be honest about that.

[_Quasimodo]

[
let's think of a religion that was started by a man that was not a proven liar. Which one are you thinking of if any?

You know what I meant. :)

[_keithb]

Pretend that you had no religion and were trying to decide on one to follow, why would you choose one that was created by a man that was a proven liar?

It seems to me that it would disqualify that one immediately.

let's think of a religion that was started by a man that was not a proven liar. Which one are you thinking of if any?

Touche

+1 point for Stemelbow!

[_stemelbow]

Z had said, ""Why are you so bent on finding dirt on the church? I mean, who cares? All that really matters is that we center our life on Christ's example."

That is a comment I received recently that goes well with the topic of this thread."

I've heard that, too. The answer is that the history and origins of the church are important to you. It's not a character flaw, and people can't simply will you to stop caring, just as you can't will them to care about the things you care about.

But the history and origins of the church are important to many faithful LDS as well. The issue isn't so simple as that. The difference between one who knows the history and bleieves, and one who knows the history and doesn't believe, as a result, is one of personal conclusions and biases. That's pretty much it.

I do find it interesting that people find many various things to complain about in regards to the church that really aren't worth complaining about. Some complaints are understandable, some are not. When I see them and see that there really isn't much reason or purpose to the complaints. I wonder why myself.