What is an anti-Mormon? Are you an anti-Mormon?

[_Pahoran]

<Snip Furious venting>

You'll get a full response later Pahoran, but if you wish to play the intellectually honest game now,

Oh, so it's just a game to you, is it?

prove me wrong and answer the question Simon and a host of other apologists refused to answer:

Call for references, please: when and where did "Simon and a host of other apologists" refuse to answer the question?

Who said the following: ""I have translated a portion of them, and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and that he received his kingdom from the Ruler of heaven and earth"

Of course I know the answer: William Clayton wrote the original of that passage in the third person; it was later amended to a first-person account and included in the History of the Church.

Who said those words Pahoran? (insert answer here). Seems like a simple enough question,after all it is Mormon church history. Can you answer the question Simon can't?

Do you know what you sound like?

"Canya answer the question Pahoran? Canya canya canya? You can't answer it, canya Pahoran? Huh? Huh? Don't interrupt, I wanna answer!"

Thank you for that nice softball question. I repeat my CFR: where and when was Simon unable to answer it?

Regards,
Pahoran

[_Runtu]

Of course I know the answer: William Clayton wrote the original of that passage in the third person; it was later amended to a first-person account and included in the History of the Church.

Who said those words Pahoran? (insert answer here). Seems like a simple enough question,after all it is Mormon church history. Can you answer the question Simon can't?

Do you know what you sound like?

"Canya answer the question Pahoran? Canya canya canya? You can't answer it, canya Pahoran? Huh? Huh? Don't interrupt, I wanna answer!"

Thank you for that nice softball question. I repeat my CFR: where and when was Simon unable to answer it?

Regards,
Pahoran

I'm still trying to figure out why thews asked such an obvious question. Anyone who has been around Mormon apologetics would know the answer to that one.

[_Pahoran]

I'm still trying to figure out why thews asked such an obvious question. Anyone who has been around Mormon apologetics would know the answer to that one.

Of course; it's an old chestnut.

Which is what makes me wonder when thewuss says that Simon "couldn't" answer it. I suspect, if ever he gets around to providing a reference, that Simon at some point broke off a discussion with thewuss in disgust, and thewuss then fired the question at him as a parting shot.

I'm not surprised that thewuss loves the Kinderhook hoax; it's always been very popular with a certain class of anti-Mormons. Apparently it was something of a favourite of Mark Hofmann's.

Regards,
Pahoran

[_Dwight Frye]

I'm not surprised that thewuss loves the Kinderhook hoax; it's always been very popular with a certain class of anti-Mormons. Apparently it was something of a favourite of Mark Hofmann's.

[_Dwight Frye]

Apparently it was something of a favourite of Mark Hofmann's.

CFR

[_Milesius]

Pahoran, ever the vapid buffoon, thinks that William Clayton being the author of the Kinderhook entry somehow absolves his prophet Smith from chicanery but of course it doesn't, as anyone with a fully functioning frontal lobe can perceive. William Clayton wasn't some random dude; he was Joseph Smith's personal scribe and remained a loyal dupe throughout his life. The reason he wrote it is because Joseph Smith instructed him to record his b.s. Moreover, Smith's Kinderhook yarn appeared in the Times and Seasons and was also mentioned by Charlotte Haven. It is clear that Smith made such a comment as was recorded by William Clayton and only a dupe would argue otherwise.

[_thews]

<Snip Furious venting>

You'll get a full response later Pahoran, but if you wish to play the intellectually honest game now,

Oh, so it's just a game to you, is it?

You Mormon guys are so petty. Look at the above quote author change... how old are you? 12? Not sure what happened to send the stray Madites over the wall, but your BS doesn't work here. You can't survive without actually answering the question, and having Rapunzel follow you around with :highfives: doesn't mean dick, you can either put up or you shut up. In your case, your objective is to blather. You don't need to pull every sentence apart to convey a thought on one subject. But, if your intent is to divert with distortion, then blather bodes well for your objective, which is to do anything except actually answer a simple question with an actual answer... it's called being intellectually honest. Mormons are not intellectually honest. Wanna prove me wrong? Just answer the question asked, without adding a series of mighta coulda what if BS that attempts to paint the ruse that there's doubt and changing the question. This question is black and white... binary. Who was quoted with the translation of the Kinderhook plates that mentions Ham? Insert the name of the person who said those words... according to Mormon history? Who said those words?

Call for references, please: when and where did "Simon and a host of other apologists" refuse to answer the question?

Note the very obvious first response... create a diversion by asking for CFR's. This is one of BS space's tactics. Once you do all the work to compile the retort and post it, it's just ignored. In a nutshell Pahoran, you once again broke down an individual sentence to create diversion, and failed to answer the question asked? Wanna know why? ... because you can't admit the truth to yourself... you cannot answer this very simple question.

Of course I know the answer: William Clayton wrote the original of that passage in the third person; it was later amended to a first-person account and included in the History of the Church.

And once again, you failed to answer the question asked. I didn't ask who wrote it, I asked you who said it. are you claiming that William Clayton made up the "Ham" part?

Do you know what you sound like?

"Canya answer the question Pahoran? Canya canya canya? You can't answer it, canya Pahoran? Huh? Huh? Don't interrupt, I wanna answer!"

Thank you for that nice softball question. I repeat my CFR: where and when was Simon unable to answer it?

Regards,
Pahoran

You're nothing more than distortion, which is not intellectually honest. If you care to answer the question asked, who was it... insert a name here, of the person who said the following: "I insert fac-similes of the six brass plates found near Kinderhook... I have translated a portion of them, and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, King of Egypt, and that he received his Kingdom from the ruler of heaven and earth.
Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, v. 5, p. 372
http://www.mormonthink.com/kinderhookweb.htm


Here's some actual data (something Mormons don't link, because Mormons don't have actual data... CFR -ask- Simon Belmont). By the way Pahoran, before you puff up and ask for CFR's, you have to actually answer the question and make a stand. Please answer the question I asked you based on the data I presented... who was "I" in the Ham part of the Kinderhook translation as posted from Mormon history on page 372 in May of 1843? The name of the person who said those words, was _____________________ (insert name here).

[_Simon Belmont]

Thews, I thought you left the board. Runtu, will you kick this asshole out again, please?

[_thews]

Thews, I thought you left the board. Runtu, will you kick this asshole out again, please?

ladies and gentlemen, put this one is the books. Jump in the wayback machine when you were young kid and there was gonna be a fight at school. In those days, the crowd would gather around the backstop and see who showed up and who chickened out. Sometimes, one kid would show up alone, and the other had an entourage of friends to jump in to help... just in case he was getting his ass kicked. But if he wasn't getting his ass kicked, and the entourage entered the equation and started helping him out with threats... that what you call a puzzly Simon. That's what you are Simon... a puzzly, looking for some help because you can't stand alone. I presented data and asked you a direct question Simon. I didn't ask you who cared about the question. I didn't ask you who could have been tricked. I asked you who said those words and you failed to answer. So you can do just that... answer the question asked, or you go back behind the backstop because I just totally kicked your ass with the truth that your a puzzly. Prove me wrong Simon... just answer the question asked. The person who translated the Kinderhook plates to include Ham was ___________.? (insert name here)... based on data presented.

Thanks Simon... see you in denial real soon.

[_Pahoran]

You Mormon guys are so petty.

"You Mormon guys?"

You cheap demagogues love to attribute group characteristics to the targets of your bigotry, don't you?

Snip more furious venting...

In your case, your objective is to blather.

That's a lie, of course; I answered the question.

You don't need to pull every sentence apart to convey a thought on one subject.

I also don't need to swallow your packaged bigotry and let you dictate the terms of the discussion. I respond point by point; deal with it or suck it up, but stop whining about it.

But, if your intent is to divert with distortion, then blather bodes well for your objective, which is to do anything except actually answer a simple question with an actual answer... it's called being intellectually honest.

Something you know nothing about. I answered the question honestly.

Blacks are not intellectually honest.

Jews are not intellectually honest.

Mormons are not intellectually honest.

What's the difference?

Snip gratuitous bigotry.

Note the very obvious first response... create a diversion by asking for CFR's.

You are projecting. If you don't want your dubious accusations questioned, don't make them.

Snip lies.

I wrote:

Of course I know the answer: William Clayton wrote the original of that passage in the third person; it was later amended to a first-person account and included in the History of the Church.

And you falsely accused:

And once again, you failed to answer the question asked. I didn't ask who wrote it, I asked you who said it. are you claiming that William Clayton made up the "Ham" part?

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realise I was supposed to read it with microscopic pharisaical legalism. Had I known that, however, I would still have answered the question truthfully and honestly, instead of allowing you to set up an intellectually dishonest false dilemma.

I must ask you to stop delivering your hypocritical lectures about "intellectual honesty," a phrase that encapsulates two concepts you know nothing about. If you did, you'd know that attempting to create a false dilemma as you have is the utmost in intellectual dishonesty.

Snip lying accusations.

insert a name here, of the person who said the following: I insert fac-similes of the six brass plates found near Kinderhook...

The "I" is obviously William Clayton; he traced the plates into his journal.

I have translated a portion of them, and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, King of Egypt, and that he received his Kingdom from the ruler of heaven and earth.

There is no "I" in the original version of that passage. That is the only "intellectually honest" answer, which explains why you don't want to hear it.

Here's some actual data (something Mormons don't link, because Mormons don't have actual data...

Another expression of your boundless bigotry.

By the way Pahoran, before you puff up and ask for CFR's, you have to actually answer the question and make a stand.

Which is precisely what I did do. I told the truth and refused to be bullied by your threats and accusations.

Please answer the question I asked you based on the data I presented...

Your arrogance is exceeded only by your malicious cunning. I am not bound by your selection of data; the "intellectually honest" answer is the truthful one.

who was "I" in the Ham part of the Kinderhook translation as posted from Mormon history on page 372 in May of 1843? The name of the person who said those words, was _____________________ (insert name here).

Unknown. The fact is that the "I" upon which you rest the entire weight of your intellectually dishonest argument is not found in the document from which that passage is sourced. Naturally the truth doesn't serve your dishonest agenda, so you, in the ultimate act of intellectual dishonesty, try to exclude the truth from the discussion; but it didn't work.

You lose.

And don't bother answering the CFR; I now know exactly what Simon did. He answered the question truthfully, and you pouted like a spoilt brat and threw a tantrum, screaming about "intellectual disonesty!"

In the which, you lied. Shamelessly.

I suggest you don't try to bully me again. You're far too much of a wuss to intimidate me.

Regards,
Pahoran