How can we determine what the LDS Church actually teaches?

[Guest]

And when will people learn to focus on the FACTS instead of the negative nuances possibly thrown in of someones speech? You don't understand Mormonism anymore, and your understanding previously was that as a child, and so when you came upon things that didn't make sense, instead of patiently growing in understanding, you thought as a child. That is a simple FACT, something I know from even my own experience leaving the Church and being anti-mormon and anti-religion. So, don't tell me I'm "just" being inflammatory, I'm actually telling the truth from knowledge, observation and experience.

Your every word is inflammatory toward LDS and Mormonism, and you have the gal to cry because an LDS is slightly negative back, having contempt for your actions? YOU are the bigot, so who are you to cry foul simply because your target fights back and can be just as critical about you, but YOU being hurling insults in the first place that there is somehow nothing wrong with it???

Pot meet kettle.... Get a clue!

[_Fence Sitter]

When are you people going to learn to stop telling OTHER PEOPLE how they should believe in their Faith, and what their Faith actually is and teaches?

You actions are the at the height of arrogance and chutzpah.

This is our Faith, this is how it all works. The fact that you can't wrap your little brains around it to understand how it all fits perfectly and wonderfully together, choosing instead to believe your own negative fantasy's of it, is not OUR problem, but yours.

We can see clearly how you make your stupid and ignorant judgments of it. It's looking at things like a "child" instead of the deeper aspects and facts of things. Liberals do the same thing, looking at things like a child. "Oh, guns kill people, so guns must be bad"..... and a 1000 other ignorant judgments.

You do realize you are on a discussion board don't you?

[_Runtu]

And when will people learn to focus on the FACTS instead of the negative nuances possibly thrown in of someones speech? You don't understand Mormonism anymore, and your understanding previously was that as a child, and so when you came upon things that didn't make sense, instead of patiently growing in understanding, you thought as a child. That is a simple FACT, something I know from even my own experience leaving the Church and being anti-mormon and anti-religion. So, don't tell me I'm "just" being inflammatory, I'm actually telling the truth from knowledge, observation and experience.

Actually, you're projecting your own experience onto us, and throwing out insults for good measure.

Your every word is inflammatory toward LDS and Mormonism, and you have the gal to cry because an LDS is slightly negative back, having contempt for your actions? YOU are the bigot, so who are you to cry foul simply because your target fights back and can be just as critical about you???

Get a clue!

How is saying that you don't understand how doctrine is defined (a true statement) inflammatory in any way? In what way have I been negative toward you other than disagreeing with you and finding your insults unhelpful? What actions am I guilty of that deserve your contempt?

I honestly don't understand why you are so angry. You obviously do not understand how doctrine is defined. Saying so does not make me a bigot.

[_Obiwan]

When are you people going to learn to stop telling OTHER PEOPLE how they should believe in their Faith, and what their Faith actually is and teaches?

You actions are the at the height of arrogance and chutzpah.

This is our Faith, this is how it all works. The fact that you can't wrap your little brains around it to understand how it all fits perfectly and wonderfully together, choosing instead to believe your own negative fantasy's of it, is not OUR problem, but yours.

We can see clearly how you make your stupid and ignorant judgments of it. It's looking at things like a "child" instead of the deeper aspects and facts of things. Liberals do the same thing, looking at things like a child. "Oh, guns kill people, so guns must be bad"..... and a 1000 other ignorant judgments.

You do realize you are on a discussion board don't you?

That doesn't change the immorality of anti-mormon actions and views.... And being a discussion board, I will point them out when necessary.

[_Runtu]

That doesn't change the immorality of anti-mormon actions and views.... And being a discussion board, I will point them out when necessary.

So, not believing in the church makes my views and actions immoral?

[_Themis]

And when will people learn to focus on the FACTS instead of the negative nuances possibly thrown in of someones speech? You don't understand Mormonism anymore, and your understanding previously was that as a child, and so when you came upon things that didn't make sense, instead of patiently growing in understanding, you thought as a child. That is a simple FACT, something I know from even my own experience leaving the Church and being anti-mormon and anti-religion. So, don't tell me I'm "just" being inflammatory, I'm actually telling the truth from knowledge, observation and experience.

Your every word is inflammatory toward LDS and Mormonism, and you have the gal to cry because an LDS is slightly negative back, having contempt for your actions? YOU are the bigot, so who are you to cry foul simply because your target fights back and can be just as critical about you, but YOU being hurling insults in the first place that there is somehow nothing wrong with it???

Pot meet kettle.... Get a clue!

Still waiting for you to provide some substance and back things up instead of your usual venom and hatred you like to spew so often.

[_Dwight Frye]

And being a discussion board, I will point them out when necessary.

You're not a discussion board, silly. You're some dude.

[_Runtu]

Still waiting for you to provide some substance and back things up instead of your usual venom and hatred you like to spew so often.

Yep. No defense of his position, just invective. Good reason not to take him particularly seriously.

[_Darth J]

Well, that certainly sounds like a reliable methodology to me.

It's not a reliable methodology. There is no clear-cut error-free method of discerning what is and is not of God outside of spiritual experience and communication.

Therefore, the unreliable method of discerning truth by "the Spirit" is how we will determine what is of "the Spirit."

Apostates like yourself will just have to accept that you will forever be ignorant unless you repent.

Ah, yes, let's make sure to have some of that Mormon dogma about the monster under your bed. If you start noticing plot holes in the faith-promoting narrative, Satan will have you in his power.

You have no way of knowing what my spirituality is or my relationship with God is. You are simply regurgitating what you have been spoon fed by the Correlation Committee.

I am neither interested in nor persuaded by your opinion that your self-serving accounts of your subjective experiences prove a point. I am even less interested, if possible, in your extending your self-serving interpretations of your personal experiences into an assumption about my own spirituality, which could not possibly be knowable to you.

If you are so uninterested in my experiences don't misrepresent them and then pontificate on what they meant (wrongly) as you did in your OP.

I am doing neither. You said what it meant. You said that what "the Spirit" told you trumps what church leaders have taught. So either they are wrong and they are right about what God wants (that the MPAA decides what movies are okay for Latter-day Saints to watch), or you they are right and you are wrong, or all of your are wrong. All of you being right is not possible, since your own words were that "the Spirit" imparted something to you that is contrary to what church leaders said about rated R movies.

Oh, and your spirituality is weak or you wouldn't be asking the kind of questions you do in the OP. No one of any spiritual stature would look for an objective way of looking at them that would measure their validity. Those of great spiritual stature would laugh in your face. I am not sure I stand with them but I will join them in laughing at you.

Nehor, I cannot be blamed if the obvious point went over your head about internet Mormons trying to make LDS doctrine a moving target.

However, among my concerns in life, one thing that is not very high on the list is the fear that my spirituality might be ridiculed by a delusional perpetual virgin who thinks that wearing long johns with Masonic symbols will protect him from evil.

Yep, I have not challenged them. That would be Darrick and Nightlion.

It is merely a matter of degree. You did in fact say that what God told you about rated R movies trumps what church leaders have said.

No, I said that I should follow the Spirit. If you were to take my word alone for it you would be a fool. If I were to state that my revelation unequivocally trumps their revelation and that my view should be followed then I would be damned and probably guilty of priestcraft.

If we are just following "the Spirit," then we don't need the LDS bureaucracy to intervene between us and God. If the function of "the Spirit" is merely a conditioned belief that subjective emotional feelings confirm the truthfulness of whatever LDS leadership is feeling neurotic about at a given time, like earrings or high-definition video games, that is not a particularly appealing sense of enlightenment.

[_The Nehor]

Therefore, the unreliable method of discerning truth by "the Spirit" is how we will determine what is of "the Spirit."

Yes, just like you can tell faulty logic from good logic by applying logic. Is that circular reasoning?

Apostates like yourself will just have to accept that you will forever be ignorant unless you repent.

Ah, yes, let's make sure to have some of that Mormon dogma about the monster under your bed. If you start noticing plot holes in the faith-promoting narrative, Satan will have you in his power.

What monster? Satan? He's a putz.

You have no way of knowing what my spirituality is or my relationship with God is. You are simply regurgitating what you have been spoon fed by the Correlation Committee.

No, I'm going off intuition here.

If you are so uninterested in my experiences don't misrepresent them and then pontificate on what they meant (wrongly) as you did in your OP.

I am doing neither. You said what it meant. You said that what "the Spirit" told you trumps what church leaders have taught.[/quote]

Nope.

So either they are wrong and they are right about what God wants (that the MPAA decides what movies are okay for Latter-day Saints to watch), or you they are right and you are wrong, or all of your are wrong.

True.

All of you being right is not possible, since your own words were that "the Spirit" imparted something to you that is contrary to what church leaders said about rated R movies.

And you know for sure that the Church leaders got it via revelation.

Oh, and your spirituality is weak or you wouldn't be asking the kind of questions you do in the OP. No one of any spiritual stature would look for an objective way of looking at them that would measure their validity. Those of great spiritual stature would laugh in your face. I am not sure I stand with them but I will join them in laughing at you.

Nehor, I cannot be blamed if the obvious point went over your head about internet Mormons trying to make LDS doctrine a moving target.

It is a moving target: "How long can rolling waters remain impure?:

However, among my concerns in life, one thing that is not very high on the list is the fear that my spirituality might be ridiculed by a delusional perpetual virgin who thinks that wearing long johns with Masonic symbols will protect him from evil.

Oh damn, I haven't put them back on yet after I lifted weights. The demons are probably EATING MY SOUL RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!

Oh wait, no.

Yep, I have not challenged them. That would be Darrick and Nightlion.

It is merely a matter of degree. You did in fact say that what God told you about rated R movies trumps what church leaders have said.

Nope.

No, I said that I should follow the Spirit. If you were to take my word alone for it you would be a fool. If I were to state that my revelation unequivocally trumps their revelation and that my view should be followed then I would be damned and probably guilty of priestcraft.

If we are just following "the Spirit," then we don't need the LDS bureaucracy to intervene between us and God.

If we were all prophets as we should be the need would be lessened considerably. But because not all are ready for more then dribbles of revelation the prophet serves a valuable purpose. He also takes an organizational and leadership role. I like prophets.

If the function of "the Spirit" is merely a conditioned belief that subjective emotional feelings confirm the truthfulness of whatever LDS leadership is feeling neurotic about at a given time, like earrings or high-definition video games, that is not a particularly appealing sense of enlightenment.

I agree with you. If anyone tries to tell you that is enlightenment, believe it not. Thus saith the Nehor.