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Moses 7:8

For behold, the Lord shall curse the land with much heat, and the barrenness thereof shall go forth forever; and there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people.

Forgetting for a moment the fact that Israel stole their gods from the Canaanites, what's with this? You can see the familiar Book of Mormon theme of God cursing people with black skin, but the Canaanites weren't black - they were Semites, like the Hebrews. What's up with that?

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_were_the_Canaanites

The Canaanites were the ancestral occupants of Palestine. They were a Semitic race, and spoke a West Semitic language very similar to ancient Hebrew.

Many Middle Eastern scholars regard the Canaanites as ancestors of today's Palestinians, although no doubt the Palestinians would also include Philistines, Nabateans and peninsular Arabs in their ancestry.

Some scholars believe that the Canaanites were the real ancestors of the Hebrew people.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_were_the_ ... z1EzvkSxX7

Also, Simon, one of the apostles of Christ, was a Canaanite. How is that possible if the Canaanites were black and cursed out of the priesthood?

http://LDS.org/scriptures/pgp/abr/1.21?lang=eng#20

21Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the aloins of bHam, and was a partaker of the blood of the cCanaanites by birth.

22From this descent sprang all the Egyptians, and thus the blood of the aCanaanites was preserved in the land.

23The land of aEgypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden;

24When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land.

25Now the first agovernment of Egypt was established by Pharaoh, the eldest son of Egyptus, the daughter of Ham, and it was after the manner of the government of Ham, which was patriarchal.

26Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that aorder established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first patriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam, and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the bblessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood.

oh man.

zeezrom wrote:oh man.

Yeah. So Joseph Smith was making it up as he went. This is just one more proof of that. He didn't know enough about the Canaanites or any other actual ancient peoples to write a convincing history of them. He should have stuck with an imaginary history of imaginary people like Nephites and Lamanites. At least there is some plausible deniability there, even if there is no actual evidence for them.

Forgetting for a moment the fact that Israel stole their gods from the Canaanites, what's with this? You can see the familiar Book of Mormon theme of God cursing people with black skin, but the Canaanites weren't black - they were Semites, like the Hebrews. What's up with that?

Not the same Canaanities. The PofGP context is preFlood. However, the Canaanites you speak of are indeed descended from Canaan, a son of Ham.

So several plausible questions are raised. Does the Canaanite descent spoken of in Abraham 1:22 refer to pre or post Flood Canaanites? Also, when did Moses 7:8 take place? The words are spoken in preFlood times but it also is a future prophecy.

There is a combination of answers to questions like these that places the priesthood ban squarely on certain descendants of Ham and not all of them so that is a possibility to consider and that raise the issue that while descent was important, the fact that not all of Hamitic descent were cursed also speaks to righteousness and belief as factors in "preserving the blood of the Canaanites".

The lesson here for Buffalo is that it's not wise to jump to conclusions before examining all the facts.

bcspace wrote:

Forgetting for a moment the fact that Israel stole their gods from the Canaanites, what's with this? You can see the familiar Book of Mormon theme of God cursing people with black skin, but the Canaanites weren't black - they were Semites, like the Hebrews. What's up with that?

Not the same Canaanities. The PofGP context is preFlood. However, the Canaanites you speak of are indeed descended from Canaan, a son of Ham.

So several plausible questions are raised. Does the Canaanite descent spoken of in Abraham 1:22 refer to pre or post Flood Canaanites? Also, when did Moses 7:8 take place? The words are spoken in preFlood times but it also is a future prophecy.

There is a combination of answers to questions like these that places the priesthood ban squarely on certain descendants of Ham and not all of them so that is a possibility to consider and that raise the issue that while descent was important, the fact that not all of Hamitic descent were cursed also speaks to righteousness and belief as factors in "preserving the blood of the Canaanites".

The lesson here for Buffalo is that it's not wise to jump to conclusions before examining all the facts.

Like Joseph, you seem to be making this up as you go.

You and I both know that there was no global flood. Why are you pretending that there was now?

The Canaanites are the Canaanites. Don't create Canaanites 2.0 out of pure apologetic necessity.

Let's not forget that the Canaanites intermarried freely with the Hebrews.

GENESIS 38:2 And Judah saw there a daughter of a certain Canaanite, whose name was Shuah; and he took her, and went in to her.
GENESIS 38:12 ... the daughter of Shuah Judah's wife
GENESIS 38:3 she bare Er.
GENESIS 38:4 she Onan.
GENESIS 38:5 she bare a son; and called his name Shelah
Her son Shelah did not die, but his descendants are found in the tribes of the Israelties.
GENESIS 46:12 the sons of Judah; Er, and Onan, and Shelah... : but Er and Onan died in the land of Canaan.
The descendants of the Canaanite woman are found in the tribes of Israel
NUMBERS 26:20 And the sons of Judah after their families were; of Shelah, the family of the Shelanites:
1_CHRONICLES 4:21 The sons of Shelah the son of Judah were, Er the father of Lecah, and Laadah the father of Mareshah, and the families of the house of them that wrought fine linen, of the house of Ashbea,

So Caananite is the old biblical version of Smith and Jones?

Like Joseph, you seem to be making this up as you go.

You are full of avoision today.

You and I both know that there was no global flood. Why are you pretending that there was now?

I am pretending no such thing. I am just being consistent with doctrine. But you can consider the Flood as a time stamp (since global or local it must be historical) and there need be no changes in my argument.

The Canaanites are the Canaanites. Don't create Canaanites 2.0 out of pure apologetic necessity.

I didn't. You can't ignore the fact that the Canaanites in the PoGP during Enoch's time are not the same Canaanites you are referring to below. Ham and his sons were not yet on the scene.

Let's not forget that the Canaanites intermarried freely with the Hebrews.

GENESIS 38:2 And Judah saw there a daughter of a certain Canaanite, whose name was Shuah; and he took her, and went in to her.
GENESIS 38:12 ... the daughter of Shuah Judah's wife
GENESIS 38:3 she bare Er.
GENESIS 38:4 she Onan.
GENESIS 38:5 she bare a son; and called his name Shelah
Her son Shelah did not die, but his descendants are found in the tribes of the Israelties.
GENESIS 46:12 the sons of Judah; Er, and Onan, and Shelah... : but Er and Onan died in the land of Canaan.
The descendants of the Canaanite woman are found in the tribes of Israel
NUMBERS 26:20 And the sons of Judah after their families were; of Shelah, the family of the Shelanites:
1_CHRONICLES 4:21 The sons of Shelah the son of Judah were, Er the father of Lecah, and Laadah the father of Mareshah, and the families of the house of them that wrought fine linen, of the house of Ashbea,

A useless argument unless you can actually address the issues I raised. These are all post Flood.

bcspace wrote:You are full of avoision today.

Nyuck, nyuck, nyuck

You're soitenly wrong!

bcspace wrote:
I am pretending no such thing. I am just being consistent with doctrine. But you can consider the Flood as a time stamp (since global or local it must be historical) and there need be no changes in my argument.

Let's go with that assumption.

bcspace wrote:I didn't. You can't ignore the fact that the Canaanites in the PoGP during Enoch's time are not the same Canaanites you are referring to below. Ham and his sons were not yet on the scene.

Guess again, bcspace. Moses 7 refers to the "children of Canaan," who was the son of Ham.

Ditto for Abraham 1: "Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth."

The passages I reference refer to the period during and after Ham and his sons. Canaanites, per the scriptures and the LDS BD, are the sons of Canaan. I'm not sure why you're even bringing up Enoch, as he has nothing to do with this. There are no Canaanites at all during Enoch's time.

"4And I [Enoch] saw the Lord; and he stood before my face, and he talked with me, even as a man talketh one with another, bface to face; and he said unto me: cLook, and I will dshow unto thee the world for the space of many generations.

5And it came to pass that I beheld in the valley of Shum, and lo, a great people which dwelt in atents, which were the people of Shum.

6And again the Lord said unto me: Look; and I looked towards the north, and I beheld the people of aCanaan, which dwelt in tents."

Enoch was being shown the future - there were no Canaanites in Enoch's time.

Refer to this helpful chart. Ham was a son of Noah. There were no Canaanites at all before Noah or Ham.

http://www.christianityoasis.com/keywor ... meline.htm

So yes, out of pure apologetic necessity, you've manufactured an imaginary Canaanite 2.0 group. Or perhaps the beta test Canaanites.

So, I ask again, how could the Canaanites have been cursed with black skin and no priesthood, when we know that they were Semites, no more black than the Hebrews, and that they intermarried freely with the Jews, and that one of Jesus' apostles was a Canaanite?

Enoch was being shown the future - there were no Canaanites in Enoch's time.
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And he never mentioned Chevy, Ford or Mercedes either so he must not have been paying attention.