Pahoran's Ignorance is Bliss

[_Kevin Graham]

Over at MAD I signed up for my annual sock-puppet festival just to rib some of the apologists there and Pahoran called me out instantly to make sure I was banned. It was funny because I had received a Facebook message from David Bokovoy asking me not to do anything that would get me banned, because he liked my arguments in a political thread. I told him all I had to do was just "be" there. If he knew I was me after the first post, then it was only a matter of time before everyone else would too. It was fun while it lasted especially after I showed how ignorant Pahoran was on the subject.

Anyway, The "critical argument" on the Book of Abraham argues that the "Sensen text" was the source Joseph Smith used to produce the worki. Mormons love to refer to this as some baseless anti-Mormon assumption that derives from sinister need to attack. So I pointed out that when the papyri were rediscovered, many Mormons believed the same exact things and the anti-Mormons agreed.

Pahoran thought he'd try to catch me in a snare by doing his usual CFR proving he had really no clue about the history of the arguments from both sides. He really believed there was no evidence that Mormon figures believed the KEP and the papyri revealed the true source for the Book of Abraham. So I responded with:

Hugh Nibley:

"Within a week of the publication of the papyri students began calling my attention, in fact, within a day or two, I think it was Witorf [?], called my attention to the fact that, the very definite fact that, one of the fragments seemed to supply all of the symbols for the Book of Abraham. This was the little "Sensen" scroll. Here are the symbols. The symbols are arranged here, and the interpretation goes along here and this interpretation turns out to be the Book of Abraham. Well, what about that? Here is the little "Sensen," because that name occurs frequently in it, the papyrus, in which a handful of Egyptian symbols was apparently expanded in translation to the whole Book of Abraham. This raises a lot of questions. It doesn't answer any questions, unless we're mind readers" (Speech given by Hugh Nibley, University of Utah, May 20, 1968).

"...the presence on the scene of some of the original papyri, including those used by the Prophet in preparing the text of the Book of Abraham and the Facsimiles with their commentaries, has not raised a single new question, though, as we shall see, it has solved some old ones."(Improvement Era, May, 1968, p54)


Richley Crapo:

"In December of 1967, I was able to examine the original papyri in the vaults of the BYU library and obtain one of the first released sets of photographic copies.... A more careful examination of these revealed the startling fact that one of the papyri of the Church collection, known as the Small Sen-Sen Papyrus, contained the same series of heiratic symbols, which had been copied, in the same order, into the Book of Abraham manuscript next to verses of that book! In other words, there was every indication that the collection of papyri in the hands of the Church contained the source which led to a production of the Book of Abraham. It was naturally this document which I immediately began to translate" (Book of Abraham Symposium, LDS Institute of Religion, Salt Lake City, April 3, 1970, p. 27).

James R. Clark:

"I have in my possession a photostatic copy of the manuscript of the Prophet Joseph Smith's translation of Abraham 1:1 to 2:18. This manuscript was bought by Wilford Wood in 1945 from Charles Bidamon, son of the man who married Emma after the death of the Prophet. The original of this manuscript is in the Church Historian's Office in Salt Lake City. The characters from which our present book of Abraham was translated are down the left-hand column and Joseph Smith's translation opposite, so we know approximately how much material was translated from each character" (Pearl of Great Price Conference, December 10, 1960, 1964 ed., pp. 60-61)



As soon as I embarrassed their resident scholar by revealing just how little he knew on this subject, the evidence I presented was deleted along with all my posts in that thread. Thankfully, David Bokovoy preserved it in one of his responses.

[_Runtu]

If I'm not mistaken, this seems like an ingenious plot to destroy David B's credibility. You are pretty cunning, you know?

[_Buffalo]

Down the memory hole with all inconvenient information.

[_stemelbow]

You are so good and pahoran is so bad...Or that's the message of this post.

hmm...who cares besides other Pahoran haters? I guess I do a little in that this is all a very adorable show. You gleefully head over there to get people like Pahoran worked up, then when banned, come back here to report your fun? I don't know whose sicker--Pahoran or you.

[_Runtu]

You are so good and pahoran is so bad...Or that's the message of this post.

hmm...who cares besides other Pahoran haters? I guess I do a little in that this is all a very adorable show. You gleefully head over there to get people like Pahoran worked up, then when banned, come back here to report your fun? I don't know whose sicker--Pahoran or you.

I think the point is that Pahoran is ignorant of the facts, which is pretty obvious.

I don't hate Pahoran, but it's kind of fun to see a CFR blow up in his face, particularly when it's from someone as evil as Kevin.

[_stemelbow]

I think the point is that Pahoran is ignorant of the facts, which is pretty obvious.

I don't hate Pahoran, but it's kind of fun to see a CFR blow up in his face, particularly when it's from someone as evil as Kevin.

If ya don't hate pahoran then stop hatin' on him. My goodness. it ain't that hard to do. He's not posting over here at the moment, so there's no need to create threads over here dedicated to laugh at the dude. That there's hatin' behavior. It ought to be called out when I see it.

[_Buffalo]

If ya don't hate pahoran then stop hatin' on him. My goodness. it ain't that hard to do. He's not posting over here at the moment, so there's no need to create threads over here dedicated to laugh at the dude. That there's hatin' behavior. It ought to be called out when I see it.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Hello Mr. Pahoran isn't so much an ignorant fool, but rather a useful idiot... Kind of like Mr. "Gookie Cookie" Schryver.

V/R
Dr. Cam

[_Kevin Graham]

You are so good and pahoran is so bad...Or that's the message of this post.

hmm...who cares besides other Pahoran haters? I guess I do a little in that this is all a very adorable show. You gleefully head over there to get people like Pahoran worked up, then when banned, come back here to report your fun? I don't know whose sicker--Pahoran or you.

I think the point is that Pahoran is ignorant of the facts, which is pretty obvious.

I don't hate Pahoran, but it's kind of fun to see a CFR blow up in his face, particularly when it's from someone as evil as Kevin.

Bingo. The entire lot of them were ignorant of the facts.

I should also point out that Pahoran engaged me, not vice versa. His only objective was to get me banned as quickly as possible so the rest of the flock could revert back to ignorant bliss. They don't take too kindly to factual information.

[_stemelbow]

Bingo. The entire lot of them were ignorant of the facts.

I should also point out that Pahoran engaged me, not vice versa. His only objective was to get me banned as quickly as possible so the rest of the flock could revert back to ignorant bliss. They don't take too kindly to factual information.

uh...i hate to be the one to break it to you, its more that they don't take kindly to you. Its not so much that they don't take kindly to factual information. Say if it all came from Pahoran, they probably wouldn't be calling for Pahoran's head, you see? Now get off your high horse and get off your silly rants against certain LDS folks. What kinda jollies are you going for anyway?