Signs of your indoctrination

[_just me]

Simon, you are on a slippery slope!!!! BWAHAHAHAHA!

Hey, I have never been asked if I am a swinger in a TR interview so I think it must not be against Mormon doctrine or code of conduct. Now I see where all these Mormon swingers are coming from.

[_Runtu]

I volunteered the information. Coffee is traditionally considered against the WoW, but is that official doctrine? I didn't get asked about it in the TR interview.

Yes, it is doctrine:

During President Heber J. Grant’s service as an Apostle and as President of the Church, he and other General Authorities often were inspired to address the Saints concerning the Word of Wisdom, a revelation found in Doctrine and Covenants 89. In this revelation, the Lord prohibits the consumption of alcohol, tobacco, and hot drinks, which latter-day prophets have defined to be tea and coffee (see D&C 89:5–9). (Teachings of the Presidents of the Church Priesthood manual, Heber J. Grant)

President Joseph F. Smith taught that the Word of Wisdom was more than a prohibition against tea, coffee, tobacco, and alcohol; it contained practical counsel for good health and spiritual growth, and those Saints who obeyed it would draw nearer to the Lord and become more like Him. To remind the Saints of the importance of the Word of Wisdom, he sometimes read Doctrine and Covenants 89 in its entirety in a meeting. “Now, it may seem altogether unnecessary and out of place, perhaps, to many, for me to occupy the time of this vast congregation in reading this revelation,” he once said, but read every word of it anyway to emphasize the great value of the message. 1

He said: “I recollect a circumstance that occurred three years ago in a party that I was traveling with. There were one or two who persisted in having their tea and coffee at every place they stopped. I preached the Word of Wisdom right along; but they said, ‘What does it matter? Here is So-and-so, who drinks tea and coffee.’ … I said at one time, ‘Oh, yes, you say it is a good thing to drink a little tea or coffee, but the Lord says it is not. What shall I follow?’ The Lord says that if we will observe the Word of Wisdom we shall have access to great treasures of knowledge, and hidden treasures; we shall run and not be weary, we shall walk and not faint; and the destroying angel shall pass us by, as he did the children of Israel, and not slay us. … I will pray for you and earnestly beseech you, my brethren and sisters, … to cease practicing these forbidden things, and observe the laws of God.”(Teachings of the Presidents of the Church Priesthood manual, Joseph F. Smith)

Read each scripture reference with class members. Then list the substance it describes.

a. D&C 89:5–7. (Wine or strong drink.)
b. D&C 89:8. (Tobacco.)
c. D&C 89:9. (Hot drinks, defined as tea and coffee.)

Honestly, if an active member such as Simon doesn't know his church's doctrine, I wonder about those of us who can't remember anything about the doctrines.

[_sock puppet]

Simon, you are on a slippery slope!!!! BWAHAHAHAHA!

Hey, I have never been asked if I am a swinger in a TR interview so I think it must not be against Mormon doctrine or code of conduct. Now I see where all these Mormon swingers are coming from.

I'll be why me has never been asked about a Mormon Lay or light cotton (if he's ever been in a TR interview), so that must make it okay? Right?

When they ask if you are chaste or keeping the law of chastity, can the sexually active single member answer yes if there is at least one sexual act he or she can imagine that he or she is refraining from?

I guess I never learned to play the Mormon game that way. No wonder I'm an apostate.

[_Jason Bourne]

Honestly, if an active member such as Simon doesn't know his church's doctrine, I wonder about those of us who can't remember anything about the doctrines.

Simon just is trying to play coy and more and more comes off looking foolish. Really I am not sure what his objective is. Every LDS person knows that when we are asked in a TR if we keep the word of wisdom the question refers to tobacco, Alcohol, Coffee, tea and illegal drugs. Nobody thinks it means eating meat sparingly, and all the other do's of the WoW.

And also I don't get his obsession about being called Mormon and The Mormon Church. Yes over the past decade or a bit more the Church has pushed to be called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members Latter-day Saints. I even have told non LDS who refer to me as a Mormon that we prefer Latter-day Saint and I explain why. But being called a Mormon or the Mormon Church is not offensive and so for Simon to say if someone was really ever a Latter-day Saint they would no we are not called Mormon is frankly idiotic.

[_Darth J]

Honestly, if an active member such as Simon doesn't know his church's doctrine, I wonder about those of us who can't remember anything about the doctrines.

Simon just is trying to play coy and more and more comes off looking foolish. Really I am not sure what his objective is. Every LDS person knows that when we are asked in a TR if we keep the word of wisdom the question refers to tobacco, Alcohol, Coffee, tea and illegal drugs. Nobody thinks it means eating meat sparingly, and all the other do's of the WoW.

And also I don't get his obsession about being called Mormon and The Mormon Church. Yes over the past decade or a bit more the Church has pushed to be called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its members Latter-day Saints. I even have told non LDS who refer to me as a Mormon that we prefer Latter-day Saint and I explain why. But being called a Mormon or the Mormon Church is not offensive and so for Simon to say if someone was really ever a Latter-day Saint they would no we are not called Mormon is frankly idiotic.

If you look through Simon's posts from when he first joined the board, he has become increasingly irrational, frustrated, and angry. He is now at the point where he is denying even basic, indisputable facts about Mormonism and suggesting that the Church's truth claims cannot be falsified because we cannot be sure that objective reality even exists. On that last point, he is clearly insincere, since if he really thought that reality may be only an illusory construct, he would not be so agitated about Doctor Scratch or anything else (because who says they're real?).

At this point, his contriving ridiculous arguments just for the sake of being disagreeable is a tacit acknowledgment that he cannot address legitimate criticism of his cherished beliefs. It would be healthier for him either to admit that the Church is not true, or admit that he is taking it completely on faith irrespective of the evidence.

[_moksha]

The entire WOW started out as a recommendation. You all know how things can get codified in a bureaucracy. When we start devaluing Simon because of coffee is the time we know that indoctrination is occurred.

[_Runtu]

The entire WOW started out as a recommendation. You all know how things can get codified in a bureaucracy. When we start devaluing Simon because of coffee is the time we know that indoctrination is occurred.

The WofW wasn't really codified until the 1930 Handbook of Instructions. I'm pretty sure that predates Simon's birth.

[_Buffalo]

Simon,

Apparently you have not grown up Mormon. Trust me, I know from personal experience that Mormons think coffee is bad because it breaks a commandment, leads to serious addictions, and pollutes the temple (your body).

Here is another. To a Mormon, Drinking coffee is worse than gossiping and hurting someone's feelings to get personal gain.

If you were ever a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, you would know that there is no such thing as "a Mormon." We are called Latter-day Saints, or members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pjNWvEM ... r_embedded

Mormons call themselves Mormons all the time. Apparently YOU were never a member of the church.

[_Buffalo]

Simon Belmont: Zeus' gift to ex-Mos :D