Ray A wrote: I don't know what makes you so sure that a bishop believes you, simply because you deny masturbating. If you gave a dishonest answer, then bear in mind that bishops are human, and they can't "discern" everything and always be right. He'd probably say to himself something like, "well if he's lying, then that's between himself and God". God isn't going to intervene in every situation. Judas was, after all, an apostle. Jesus could have exposed and expunged him from day one.
Jesus was just a man, and didn't have any more discernment than anyone else.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
Paul and I still email regularly. He really is doing quite well.
I think he does occasionally still lurk here, but I doubt he'll post. It was just taking up too much of his time, and he really needed to move on with his life.
His dwelling on Mormonism was having a negative affect on his overall ability to move on after the divorce. He is really enjoying his move; he is closer to his daughter. His job is going well, too.
brade wrote:The most common reason I'm aware of has to do with milk strippings. We all, of course, know that Mormons love milk. And we likewise know that ex-Mormons love to sneak away milk strippings.
brade wrote:The most common reason I'm aware of has to do with milk strippings. We all, of course, know that Mormons love milk. And we likewise know that ex-Mormons love to sneak away milk strippings.
Brigham Young wrote:I presume that Brother Marsh will take no offen[s]e if I talk a little about him. We have manifested our feelings towards him, and we know his situation. With regard to this Church’s being reconciled to him, I can say that this Church and people were never dissatisfied with him; for when men and women apostatize and go from us, we have nothing to do with them. If they do that which is evil, they will suffer for it. Brother Marsh has suffered….
He has told you that he is an old man. Do you think that I am an old man? I could prove to this congregation that I am young; for I could find more girls who would choose me for a husband than can any of the young men. Brother Thomas considers himself very aged and infirm, and you can see that he is, brethren and sisters. What is the cause of it? He left the Gospel of salvation. What do you think the difference is between his age and mine? One year and seven months to a day; and he is one year, seven months, and fourteen days older than brother Heber C. Kimball. “Mormonism” keeps men and women young and handsome; and when they are full of the Spirit of God, there are none of them but what will have a glow upon their countenances; and that is what makes you and me young; for the Spirit of God is with us and within us.
When Brother Thomas thought of returning to the Church, the plurality of wives troubled him a good deal. Look at him. Do you think it need to? I do not; for I doubt whether he could get one wife. Why it should have troubled an infirm old man like him is not for me to say..
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
First, dropping out of activity because there is SO much 'busywork' that does little or no good.
Second, most of the people who attend drove me nuts with self-imposed blinders, prejudices, fears, placing petty issues over big ones (form over substance, sort of), the LDS culture & traditions that will not die, the (unspoken) pressure to follow like sheep, the the fear of contamination that puts the lie to the teaching that we accept truth wherever it may be found - unless it's found outside our church manuals, publications, or 'traditions.'
Third, huge conflicting statements from diff. prophets - and not the kind that deal with subjects that would reasonably need to be adjusted over time & changing conditions -with absolutely no authoritative explanation offered, and no non-authoritative explanations bandied about that actually explain anything.
Fourth, the corporatization of the church organization & mind-set. Increasing CEO leadership, less spiritual shepherd leadership, which coincides with the materialistically oriented 'tone' prevalent among LDS, who somehow manage to rationalize & ignore all the warnings in the Book of Mormon aimed straight at that attitude in today's church.
These are the main reasons I stopped attending church & stopped calling myself LDS. That is not to say I don't believe in the basic principles. I read & gain insight from much of the Book of Mormon & some commentaries on its content. I love to read & learn & do, indeed, find matching truths in all sorts of places. I rely most on my relationship with deity & work on being in tune with that source of guidance because, although I was a lifetime, committed, convinced believer for many years, it was in spite of the organization & people, not because of them.
I still gravitate toward LDS teachings & principles as a good source of beneficial ideas & life choices, & even I find that a bit confusing, myself.
cambreckenridge wrote:First, dropping out of activity because there is SO much 'busywork' that does little or no good.
Second, most of the people who attend drove me nuts with self-imposed blinders, prejudices, fears, placing petty issues over big ones (form over substance, sort of), the LDS culture & traditions that will not die, the (unspoken) pressure to follow like sheep, the the fear of contamination that puts the lie to the teaching that we accept truth wherever it may be found - unless it's found outside our church manuals, publications, or 'traditions.'
Third, huge conflicting statements from diff. prophets - and not the kind that deal with subjects that would reasonably need to be adjusted over time & changing conditions -with absolutely no authoritative explanation offered, and no non-authoritative explanations bandied about that actually explain anything.
Fourth, the corporatization of the church organization & mind-set. Increasing CEO leadership, less spiritual shepherd leadership, which coincides with the materialistically oriented 'tone' prevalent among LDS, who somehow manage to rationalize & ignore all the warnings in the Book of Mormon aimed straight at that attitude in today's church.
These are the main reasons I stopped attending church & stopped calling myself LDS. That is not to say I don't believe in the basic principles. I read & gain insight from much of the Book of Mormon & some commentaries on its content. I love to read & learn & do, indeed, find matching truths in all sorts of places. I rely most on my relationship with deity & work on being in tune with that source of guidance because, although I was a lifetime, committed, convinced believer for many years, it was in spite of the organization & people, not because of them.
I still gravitate toward LDS teachings & principles as a good source of beneficial ideas & life choices, & even I find that a bit confusing, myself.
Cam
I bolded the portions of Cam's post which i relate to. none of them have driven me from the church yet. If I ever leave I think my take would be about like Cam's, for the most part.
oops....did I just throw out some clues for y'all? Nope. most of ya have me on ignore anywho.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
I am sorely disappointed that so many bitter apostates feel that the Church encourages "cookie cutter Mormonism," and that the Church's message is essentially "pay, pray, and obey." Such things are said only by those who are offended and never really understood the Church.
You will be safe if you look like and groom like and act like an ordinary Latter-day Saint: dress modestly, attend your meetings, pay tithes, take the sacrament, honor the priesthood, honor your parents, follow your leaders, read the scriptures, study the Book of Mormon, and pray—always pray. An unseen power will hold your hand as you hold to the iron rod.
Quasimodo wrote:What lawyer would you hire to sue Satan for breach of contract?
I would contact the Committee for Licensed Infernal Trading Oral Records Internal Services division (CLITORIS).
Reason 100: Growing up and having absolutely no idea how to use the clitoris properly.
H.
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level." ~ Ernest Becker "Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death." ~ Simone de Beauvoir
cambreckenridge wrote:First, dropping out of activity because there is SO much 'busywork' that does little or no good.
Second, most of the people who attend drove me nuts with self-imposed blinders, prejudices, fears, placing petty issues over big ones (form over substance, sort of), the LDS culture & traditions that will not die, the (unspoken) pressure to follow like sheep, the the fear of contamination that puts the lie to the teaching that we accept truth wherever it may be found - unless it's found outside our church manuals, publications, or 'traditions.'
Third, huge conflicting statements from diff. prophets - and not the kind that deal with subjects that would reasonably need to be adjusted over time & changing conditions -with absolutely no authoritative explanation offered, and no non-authoritative explanations bandied about that actually explain anything.
Fourth, the corporatization of the church organization & mind-set. Increasing CEO leadership, less spiritual shepherd leadership, which coincides with the materialistically oriented 'tone' prevalent among LDS, who somehow manage to rationalize & ignore all the warnings in the Book of Mormon aimed straight at that attitude in today's church.
These are the main reasons I stopped attending church & stopped calling myself LDS. That is not to say I don't believe in the basic principles. I read & gain insight from much of the Book of Mormon & some commentaries on its content. I love to read & learn & do, indeed, find matching truths in all sorts of places. I rely most on my relationship with deity & work on being in tune with that source of guidance because, although I was a lifetime, committed, convinced believer for many years, it was in spite of the organization & people, not because of them.
I still gravitate toward LDS teachings & principles as a good source of beneficial ideas & life choices, & even I find that a bit confusing, myself.
Cam
I bolded the portions of Cam's post which i relate to. none of them have driven me from the church yet. If I ever leave I think my take would be about like Cam's, for the most part.
oops....did I just throw out some clues for y'all? Nope. most of ya have me on ignore anywho.
lightning just struck because I agree with you, Stem! LOL
I have stayed in the Church in spite of some of these conflicts because most of them can be attributed to individuals rather than the organization as a whole. I suppose that, for me, the teachings found in the Bible and the Book of Mormon are enough to keep me gravitated toward the Church rather than against it.
I went through a huge crisis of faith several years ago, but I found that I was able to balance a lot of my concerns by consistently putting my family first, saying "No" when necessary, and also freely participating in the MDB community.
I may start another topic about the "NOM" perspective...or, at least my perspective regarding living the gospel in a balanced way.
