Poll: Should Stem stay or go?

[_stemelbow]

This really isn't meant to be anything dramatic. I'm just quite curious. It seems Stak and co have decided to post threads in which they hope to keep others from replying to me, in some seeming power-move to get rid of stem. I get their dislike for me. I get that there are others who have quietly without fanfare put me on ignore. I get that there are others who have personal hostilities directed at me, for whatever reason.

I simply have no desire to participate in a place where my contributions as a whole are completely disrespected and ignored. It seems from the start of my participation there have been people misunderstand me and continue to hold their misunderstanding against me. There are those who wish to tell me why they hate my replies here, why I'm just a TBM who doesn't know what he's talking about, why I'm not really a TBM and that I really don't accept the church of Jesus Christ. I can't really keep them all straight. So let's get it straight.

Who wishes me gone? Who wishes me to stay? Feel free to offer any comments along with your vote, in fact, I'd appreciate it if ya did (I realize in requesting this this thread will most likely be filled with editorials of why people don't like me or why I'm not a very good participator but I'll take these as constructive criticism). I might leave anyway, but I'll most likely leave if the vote comes out as I should go or no one cares. Cool?

Peace to the lot of ya.

[_sock puppet]

stem,

No poster is liked by every other poster here.

I for one do not like your posts, but there are those that do. I am free to add you to my Foe function, or simply ignore your posts. Leaving would deprive those that like your posts, and you from whatever it is you derive from MDB that keeps you posting to date.

So I will not be voting in your poll. There's not an option for my position.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Hello,

I think you're a big idiot, but I wouldn't put you on ignore, nor would I advocate anyone else doing the same thing.

There's only one person, ever, that I have placed on the Foe's list, and that's Darrick. He makes Mr. Nightlion look like a sophisticate.

edit: Oh, and your poll is retarded.

V/R
Dr. Cam

[_Fifth Columnist]

Stem, let me get a couple of things out of the way. First, I would never say that anyone should stop posting (because I am conservative/libertarian, which, according to aussieguy, makes me dumb and backwards). Second, I don't dislike anyone on this board. There are just different personalities.

That being said, I usually skip over your posts because I don't find a lot of value in them. Why? Because they display a level of mental gymnastics that is entirely impervious to evidence, reason, or logic. Your arguments usually get eviscerated but for some reason you can't see it and just keep coming back for more (you're not alone - Simon, BCSpace, Droopy, etc. have this same problem). I think you post some things that are valuable, but I am unwilling to sift through so much chaff (your posts and the replies to them) for a few small kernels of wheat.

Another reason I'm not a big fan of your posts is that you remind me too much of myself. Back in the day, I too believed that the Church had to be true and everything else must be made to fit that conclusion. I did the same kind of mental bobbing and weaving that you are doing. Watching you do it now brings back embarrassing memories (thankfully Darth J was not posting back then or I would have some extremely embarrassing memories).

[_Yoda]

Stem--

I think you should stay.

The reason I have been frustrated with your posts is that your sentence structure was initially so poor that I really did not understand what you were trying to say. I couldn't really engage you in an intelligent conversation.

However, after Jersey Girl, Blixa, and I pointed this out to you, I have noticed a concerted effort on your part to improve. I give you honest kudos for that. :-)

If you have noticed, I have engaged you on a few more threads, and I have noticed that others have done the same.

You have a valuable viewpoint. I think you should stay, and become part of the community. Join us in chat sometime.

[_asbestosman]

stay or go as you please, just like the rest of us. Many of thr long time posters have taken breaks.

Two things increase the chances I will read a post: humor, and brevity.

Don't deny yourself a chance to learn and interact just because others say they dislike your posts. I think many of my posts are ignored too. Perhaps after a while, my reasoning is known and defenses are largely predictible and hence tiring.

[_Doctor Scratch]

I think he should stay. His behavior and posts reflect very poorly on LDS apologetics, and so in that sense, I think he's invaluable as a poster.

[Guest]

This really isn't meant to be anything dramatic. I'm just quite curious. It seems Stak and co have decided to post threads in which they hope to keep others from replying to me, in some seeming power-move to get rid of stem.

The first thing you must realize stemelbow, is that Stak is just another person on an internet message board with an opinion. The cliques are formed because they need to be formed, and it's very easy to toss out softballs knowing the rest of the clique will hit it out for you by agreeing with whatever your point was and posting LOL's and ROFL's to imply your point was so humorous. Once you understand the dynamic of the clique, put it into perspective and ask yourself if you would be proud to boast to a group of live people that you were a big deal on an internet message board? In Stak's case, he's not even a Mormon, which makes it even more pathetic to consider yourself a big deal on an internet message board you have no real experience with.


Your plight stemelbow is still in the sincere phase; you actually believe in Mormonism and its truth claims. You are a champion going up against the great evil "anti-Mormon" movement set out to persecute the devout LDS. Know that with your every post, there's a Mormon lurker pulling for you and applauding your mettle to stand up for what you collectively believe in. They may be silent stemelbow, but they're sending you good vibes in your attempt to prove the critics wrong.

The difference between you and the sociopath LDS apologist in my opinion, is that you still believe Mormonism is true. The sociopath Mormon apologist knows too much about the facts to ignore them, constantly reverse engineering possible scenarios to cast doubt, change the question, or just distort the conversation to imply they have made a point when all they did was avoid answering the question. Here's an example of yours in response to the Kinderhook question I asked you:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17539

Here ya go, thews: http://en.fairmormon.org/Forgeries_rela ... ook_Plates

If ya don't like the standard LDS apologetic on this I can't help ya.

I find it silly that someone is trying to get Joseph Smith by saying he was wrong about kinderhook. But by all means continue this crusade.

You didn't answer the question I asked you, but only gave me a Mormon link to where your supposed point could be found. This is standard fare for Mormon apologists, because if you actually answered the question I asked you and quoted your source, you could be held to it. The fact is fairly simple, and that is Joseph Smith's truth claims are brought into question when the facts are acknowledged. This is why Dr. Daniel Peterson refused to answer the question and claimed ignorance because he hadn't researched it here:

posting.php?mode=quote&f=3&p=428008

Thanks for responding to the question Dr. Peterson, but I find it hard to believe you don't know and have no opinion.

Difficult to believe or not, I don't know, haven't researched the matter, don't particularly care, and prefer not to speak off the top of my head regarding questions of straightforward historical fact to which I've paid no attention at all.

The same could be said for Simon Belmont in his methods. He makes statements he can't back up (like his absurd claim that there's actual evidence to support the historicity in Mormonism), then continues to avoid the CFR claiming he'd already answered it. Pahroan's tactic is to break down every sentence in a blathering ploy to make it difficult to respond to, while continually claiming the questions asked are bigoted. BC Space is, in my opinion, a sociopath without question. He states things that are not true (Brigham Young was not a racist based on his research), and then fails to provide his research, only to repeatedly make the same claim.

To summarize stemelbow, you're in a tight spot here, because you are outside the box. If you prefer the :high-five: clique-type of Mormon discussion where the same posters swoop in to defend their pals, then MADB is probably a better fit for you. I, for one, admire your intent, because I believe you actually believe in Joseph Smith's truth claims. The longer you stay in here the more outside the box you'll become. One day you find yourself actually asking, "What if Joseph Smith was lying?" When you can get to that point and are actually objective enough to answer the question honestly, then you'll have a choice to make. You can become a New Order Mormon and just live the lifestyle knowing the church is not true, you can leave the church and base your beliefs on what you've decided is true (rather than what you've been told to believe is true), or you can continue to champion a cause you know is not true. Unless you can answer my question honestly based on the facts, you're simply avoiding the truth... checkmate has already been called, Joseph Smith was not a prophet of God, and while you like the Mormon lifestyle, you can't make something false into something true inside your own head. Wanna prove me wrong? ...just answer the question I asked you. In the mean time, I hope you stay... keep fighting for what you believe in; your argument is what counts.

edit to add: You may want to refrain from referring to yourself in the third person... it's a doosh move.

[_Joseph]

Your inferiority complex is getting out of hand. Go visit derick evenson and get a couple of fat broads and let off some steam.

[_Polygamy-Porter]

Stem,

Keep your garments tucked in and out of sight on this forum.

Feel free to let them hang out and bear your testimony in the upper celestial forum.

I promise to respect anything that you post up there where faith is the moderator; so long as it is respectful.

Down here, the moderator on this middle forum is nothing but facts.

I voted for you to stay because I want you to find happiness. If that is outside the church, I think this is a great place to start.

Shades created this board on the middle ground between RfM and FAIR/MA&D/MD&D for people like you and I to have fun.

If you really need someone to fawn over your beliefs, head on over to Danny's litter box on yonder board.

On a personal note, if I may so inquire, are you married? If so, spend more time with her, if not get out and get a girlfriend lest you end up like Nehbore. ha ha

I guess the sad reality that you face as a TBM is folks outside of the church will never see your point of view, especially here on this middle forum.