LDSToronto wrote: The only people who qualify are men who are ordained apostles, and perhaps, seventies (so I'm told, I've never really studied it out).
Have any or all of these men claimed to have experienced a divine appearance? What about Nehor, he has reported such an occurrence and he has neither the office furniture nor the keys. On the other hand, I could well imagine the muse frequently visiting Sister Blixa.
LDSToronto wrote: The only people who qualify are men who are ordained apostles, and perhaps, seventies (so I'm told, I've never really studied it out).
Have any or all of these men claimed to have experienced a divine appearance? What about Nehor, he has reported such an occurrence and he has neither the office furniture nor the keys. On the other hand, I could well imagine the muse frequently visiting Sister Blixa.
The ONLY requirement for SoP qualification is the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost. Not the light-minded nonsense of an imperceptible process. But the real McCoy. This is why it is so restrictive and why hardly anyone ever really gets it. The Lord is not going to haphazardly put souls at risk Willy Nilly. (See Jerry Seinfeld's hands up waving about) High office, apostle has nothing to do with it. Counting the atonement's regeneration as a thing of naught IS the sin. You are looking at the sun and denying its existence. LDS have no clue about BFHG or they would be all about it.
moksha wrote:Have any or all of these men claimed to have experienced a divine appearance?
Several have.
What about Nehor, he has reported such an occurrence and he has neither the office furniture nor the keys.
No, the occurence was not of that nature (Thank God!).
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
moksha wrote:Have any or all of these men claimed to have experienced a divine appearance?
Several have.
Living apostles? I've heard none declare such a thing. In fact, I think I may have heard one apostle, I can't recall who, say something to the effect that a personal visitation by Christ was unnecessary to become a special witness and didn't happen very often.
If you have examples of living apostles who have seen God or Jesus Christ (heck, even apostles that have lived over the past 30 years) I'd be interested in reading those accounts.
H.
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level." ~ Ernest Becker "Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death." ~ Simone de Beauvoir
LDSToronto wrote:Living apostles? I've heard none declare such a thing.
I have.
In fact, I think I may have heard one apostle, I can't recall who, say something to the effect that a personal visitation by Christ was unnecessary to become a special witness and didn't happen very often.
Never heard that.
If you have examples of living apostles who have seen God or Jesus Christ (heck, even apostles that have lived over the past 30 years) I'd be interested in reading those accounts.
Can't, not supposed to share personal notes from Apostles speaking in some meetings.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
She started the Shaker movement. The main tenet of Shakerism was a complete avoidance of sexual relations for all of it's members (she didn't like sex much).
Consequently, they "un-bred" themselves out of existence. It's hard to find converts when complete abstinence for everyone is your leading principle.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.
"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.
LDSToronto wrote:Living apostles? I've heard none declare such a thing.
I have.
In fact, I think I may have heard one apostle, I can't recall who, say something to the effect that a personal visitation by Christ was unnecessary to become a special witness and didn't happen very often.
Never heard that.
If you have examples of living apostles who have seen God or Jesus Christ (heck, even apostles that have lived over the past 30 years) I'd be interested in reading those accounts.
Can't, not supposed to share personal notes from Apostles speaking in some meetings.
Ah, so you have heard it, but can't support it because of some rule you've made up...
They are *your* notes...
H.
"Others cannot endure their own littleness unless they can translate it into meaningfulness on the largest possible level." ~ Ernest Becker "Whether you think of it as heavenly or as earthly, if you love life immortality is no consolation for death." ~ Simone de Beauvoir
LDSToronto wrote:Have any or all of these men claimed to have experienced a divine appearance?
The technicality IS: You need the Special Witness given to you in a revelation by the power of the Holy Ghost. This makes you an apostle of Jesus Christ. Not everyone who sees Christ and feels the prints in his hands and feet or thrusts their hand into his side qualifies as an Apostle. They can testify that they have seen and know but the Special Witness that adds authority to the testimony of an Apostle is in the Special Witness revelation of the Holy Ghost. From then on you carry the weight of responsibility for that witness and are accountable.
I would say the apostolic witness should come before a face to face encounter. But you wont get the witness if you never received the gospel right and were baptized with fire and the Holy Ghost. Since no LDS leader preaches the necessity of this ordinance or even knows that this ratifies the gospel covenant, and by either word or deed manifests any familiarity or respects the importance and urgency of getting this precisely done according to the commandments of Jesus Christ, I venture no living LDS leader is qualified to receive the Special Witness.
That's the facts. Now what manner of man would carry on in such a high office giving off airs undeserved? Really! What arrogance! Are they not all robbers?