stemelbow wrote: I think it can be argued that many ex-LDS never got it in the first place and that's why they left. As it is, you simply aren't right because you make the statement.
I think Buffalo is talking about the apostate, someone who knows the church fairly well before leaving. Not your convert who leaves after a period of weeks or months which probably makes up most converts, or those who grew up in the church but left early on in life.
Buffalo wrote:That's a TBM defense mechanism, and it's incredibly arrogant. Of course we got it. I believed, all the way, 100%, ten years ago. I got it. To think that anyone who disagrees with you only because they don't understand your position is fallacious. It takes humility to realize that an intelligent person can completely understand your position, and then reject it. Be humble, Stem. Don't pull a Wade on me. You're smarter than that.
What? I do realize that an intelligent person can reject many positions I hold. Any intelligent person can think Joseph Smith is not a prophet, for sure.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
stemelbow wrote: I think it can be argued that many ex-LDS never got it in the first place and that's why they left. As it is, you simply aren't right because you make the statement.
I think Buffalo is talking about the apostate, someone who knows the church fairly well before leaving. Not your convert who leaves after a period of weeks or months which probably makes up most converts, or those who grew up in the church but left early on in life.
Yes, that's what I mean. I don't mean the many people who are baptised later in life and then leave a month later.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
Buffalo wrote:That's a TBM defense mechanism, and it's incredibly arrogant. Of course we got it. I believed, all the way, 100%, ten years ago. I got it. To think that anyone who disagrees with you only because they don't understand your position is fallacious. It takes humility to realize that an intelligent person can completely understand your position, and then reject it. Be humble, Stem. Don't pull a Wade on me. You're smarter than that.
What? I do realize that an intelligent person can reject many positions I hold. Any intelligent person can think Joseph Smith is not a prophet, for sure.
Buffalo wrote:That's a TBM defense mechanism, and it's incredibly arrogant. Of course we got it. I believed, all the way, 100%, ten years ago. I got it. To think that anyone who disagrees with you only because they don't understand your position is fallacious. It takes humility to realize that an intelligent person can completely understand your position, and then reject it. Be humble, Stem. Don't pull a Wade on me. You're smarter than that.
What? I do realize that an intelligent person can reject many positions I hold. Any intelligent person can think Joseph Smith is not a prophet, for sure.
Thank you.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
Buffalo wrote:Yes, that's what I mean. I don't mean the many people who are baptised later in life and then leave a month later.
There are plenty of folks who leave after many years of being LDS who don't seem to get it. I didn't have new converts in mind when I said that, but you add them to the mix and your statement seems even more wrong.
Love ya tons, Stem
I ain't nuttin'. don't get all worked up on account of me.
stemelbow wrote: That makes far more sense. But, sadly, I don't think that's necessarily true either. Afterall DCP obviously knows more than Buffalo--the depth of the chasm between the two can by itself make up any deficiencies any ignorant TBM has. This was meant to be fun-loving teasing of Buffalo and nothing more. But I do question whether EA's conclusion is true, even if it can come off as reasonable.
DCP is one of the chief apologists for the LDS Church. He is one of the least apt illustrative examples you could've picked. A rough equivalent to him would be a Brent Metcalfe type, and even then not really. But that's not where the comparison is going to average out. It's going to be faithful LDS in the pews vs. once faithful, but now apostates. People like DCP and Metcalfe are outliers.