How many faults, lies, errors, fabrications does it take?

[_The Mighty Builder]

What is the tipping point for the Mormon Church to no longer be able to title itself the "one and only" true Church?

For me it was one.

[_Sethbag]

This may sound stupid and trite, but for me the tipping point was when I realized that it was actually just a manmade church the same as all the other ones out there. It's a product of human effort and mind, and participation and work.

As for when this tipping point occurred for me, it was at some point within a short, maybe weeks or monthslong period of time after first being exposed to the critical and apologetic arguments surrounding Joseph Smith's polygamy and the creation of the Book of Abraham.

[_Buffalo]

I was always too afraid to look too deeply into problems with church history, for fear it would hurt my testimony. I'm sure a lot of TBMs are the same way. What did it for me was not any specific problems with Mormonism, but specific problems common to all Bible-based religions, and the many conflicts between science and scripture.

But once I'd already stopped believing in God, I finally allowed myself to fully investigate those problematic historical issues, and it became incredibly obvious that it was all a house of cards, just like any other church. In fact, worse than most other churches.

It was with some chagrin and wry amusement that I finally realized that Mormonism, at least early Mormonism, was indeed a cult in every sense of the word, even though I had always denied that vigorously to the evangelicals I encountered on my mission. They were right about that.

[_The Mighty Builder]

Yes, for me the one point was Joe Smith, Jr. having sexual relationships with minors and how he manipulated the participants into allowing him to violate a 14 year old girl. Being the father of daughters this sickened me to the point of violent repulsion of such a man praised as a representative of a God "who can look upon sin with the least degree of allowance."

Representing your sexual perversions as commands of God or any other deity on an innocent child is the MOST unforgivable SIN (something about a mill stone around the neck as I recall).

[_Buffalo]

Yes, for me the one point was Joe Smith, Jr. have sexual relationships and how he manipulated the participants into allowing him to violate a 14 year old girl. Being the father of daughters this sickened me to the point of violent repulsion of such a man praised as a representative of a God "who can look upon sin with the least degree of allowance."

Representing your sexual perversions as commands of God or any other deity on an innocent child is the MOST unforgivable SIN (something about a mill stone around the neck as I recall).

When I first learned about that (back when the Warren Jeffs story broke) it made me sick too. I'd say it hurt my testimony, but I forced myself not to think about it. I'm sure a lot of other believing Mormons do likewise - which is why they rarely comment on threads about Joseph Smiths' sexual victimization of young girls.

[_Hades]

I'd say all of the lies, faults, errors, and fabrications add up to one big bogus picture.

When I found out that Joe Smith was a money digger and money digging was an elaborate con, that made me see things in a different light. The Mormon church was founded by a conman. That's like believing in a church that was founded by a science fiction writer.

[_bcspace]

Yes, for me the one point was Joe Smith, Jr. having sexual relationships with minors and how he manipulated the participants into allowing him to violate a 14 year old girl.

Oh I certainly agree that the apostate doesn't have to tell himself too many faults, lies, errors, and fabrications to get to that condition.

That's like believing in a church that was founded by a science fiction writer.

No less valid an occupation than say, a carpenter.

[_Buffalo]

Yes, for me the one point was Joe Smith, Jr. having sexual relationships with minors and how he manipulated the participants into allowing him to violate a 14 year old girl.

Oh I certainly agree that the apostate doesn't have to tell himself too many faults, lies, errors, and fabrications to get to that condition.

That's like believing in a church that was founded by a science fiction writer.

No less valid an occupation than say, a carpenter.

What about a church that was founded by a scam artist? Say, someone who pretended to be able to find hidden treasure through magic, and charged people for his "services"?

[_Darth J]

Yes, for me the one point was Joe Smith, Jr. having sexual relationships with minors and how he manipulated the participants into allowing him to violate a 14 year old girl.

Oh I certainly agree that the apostate doesn't have to tell himself too many faults, lies, errors, and fabrications to get to that condition.

That's right, because the truth about Joseph Smith is quite sufficient to get to that condition.

[_Kishkumen]

Well, as everything unfolded and I saw the warts and all perspective, I came to feel like things were far from the picture perfect myth I had trusted in. Still, I learned to appreciate that in Mormonism, like in most every other religion, people were aspiring to better things through their community of faith. At that point I had to ask myself whether Mormonism was really the best place for me to pursue my aspirations. At present I would have to say that I don't think that it is.