Will Schryver wrote:This is a shameless and baseless LIE.
And you, my dear, are a base propagandist--although I have no doubt your work will be well received in these parts. However, don't expect it to have the result you most desire: the neutralization of my present and future contributions to LDS apologetics.
However, now having so closely associated yourself with the brazen and frantic efforts of people like Kevin Graham and "Kishkumen," you will have at least removed, from the minds of those you aspire to influence, all doubt about your allegiances and motivations. That serves my purposes quite well ...
It is not surprising that you claim this is a lie. However, the fact that the comment was so egregious that it was immediately deleted, while all your other name-calling was not deleted (all the variants of bitch and sly "whore" references) lends support to the assertion that you went even further than you normally do in name-calling. Moreover, I know that Harmony remembers quite clearly what you called her. Your memory, at least when it comes to malicious statements about women (see Emma) is not that reliable.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
Will Schryver wrote: However, don't expect it to have the result you most desire: the neutralization of my present and future contributions to LDS apologetics.
Who is desiring this? Certainly not me...nor do I believe that Jack desires this.
I wish you much success in your present and future endeavors.
I honestly believe that the way for your work to be taken seriously is for you to set a solid example of being a worthy priesthood holder on these boards, and take responsibility for your actions.
If you commit to go forward, behaving in an adult manner, and treat people here with respect, that is all any of us can ask. That is all any of us ARE asking.
If you can commit to that, then this thread is moot.
I would be willing to acknowledge that your prior behavior was a thing of the past, and something which you no longer wish to engage in.
You have managed to avoid misogynistic comments since you have returned to the board. I think that if you commit to keeping your arguments on point from this point forward, and avoid personal attacks, that simple act will dispell a lot of the prior ugliness.
Are you willing to do that?
This is not sufficient in my view. Will needs to not only avoid misogynistic behavior from this point forward, but to admit his past wrong-doing. He won't. Every time it's been brought up he asserts that he stands by all his previous statements, and is delighted and proud of them, and other apologists are delighted that he says things that they dare not.
Personally, there is nothing Will can say or do that will convince me he's reformed due to that fact. My interest in this is not to reform Will, but to warn apologists of what a mess they will have to deal with in the future if they don't deal with it now.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
Will Schryver wrote:This is a shameless and baseless LIE.
And you, my dear, are a base propagandist--although I have no doubt your work will be well received in these parts. However, don't expect it to have the result you most desire: the neutralization of my present and future contributions to LDS apologetics.
However, now having so closely associated yourself with the brazen and frantic efforts of people like Kevin Graham and "Kishkumen," you will have at least removed, from the minds of those you aspire to influence, all doubt about your allegiances and motivations. That serves my purposes quite well ...
It is not surprising that you claim this is a lie. However, the fact that the comment was so egregious that it was immediately deleted, while all your other name-calling was not deleted (all the variants of bitch and sly "whore" references) lends support to the assertion that you went even further than you normally do in name-calling. Moreover, I know that Harmony remembers quite clearly what you called her. Your memory, at least when it comes to malicious statements about women (see Emma) is not that reliable.
Without a sliver of doubt, had I, in actuality, said such a thing, it would have been preserved and made reference to in perpetuity.
It is a blatant lie. I have never used that revolting term, in any setting, in my entire life.
I thought myself the wiser to have viewed the evidence left of such a great demise. I followed every step. But the only thing I ever learned before the journey's end was there was nothing there to learn, only something to forget.
Will's baseless attack on MsJack just furthers his shameless tradition of attacking women. MsJack has every reason to believe those who testify against Will, and she showed that Will has a habit of vehemently denying having said things, only to have him forced to admit it after the evidence is thrown in his face. Between the two of them, MsJack is the only one who hasn't a reputation for lying and deceiving, and all she is doing is relying on eye-witness testimony by those who remember the original post, and of course, it is hardly inconsistent with Will's obvious hatred towards women. His wife and daughter ought to be ashamed of their husband and father, as I'm sure they will be if they ever come across this information.
It is also telling that Will has to attack MsJack for having motivations other than what she stated. Apparently, it is beyond his ability to reason, that another female poster could possibly be disgusted with his vicious comments towards other women, most of which he gleefully admits to having said, and even indicated he'd like to see further exposure of his comments as to demonstrate the support from other apologists. No, for Will, this has to be some concerted effort by those he hates so much, to remove him from the apologetic spotlight.
Hilarious. Leave it to Will to spin this in a way to make him look important. This reminds me of Donald Trump trying to take credit for his Obama-birther nonsense. It takes a special kind of dissonance to view a thorough and embarrassing refutation as evidence that you're more important than you really are. As if that was your plan all along! Now Will wants to claim victim status, as if he didn't bring this upon himself. An amazing exhibition in dissonance that makes me feel almost sorry for the apologetic state of mind.
It is a blatant lie. I have never used that revolting term, in any setting, in my entire life.
Uh huh, didn't you say the same thing about your "bitch" comment towards Emma Smith? You then were forced to fess up once the evidence was thrown in your face. Your history is that you're willing to lie about something so long as you think no one can prove otherwise. This makes MsJack's claim far ore credible than yours. In fact, your denial of it is enough serves to strengthen her claim against you.
But you pretending to be all indignant is just a smoke and mirror show. She could have deleted that one example and her post would still stand as a devastating testament against your character. Most of the other citations you admit saying, so all you're doing here is the typical apologetic maneuver employed by so many FARMS reviewers. You point out one "lie" and then use the guilt by association to suggest the rest of the work is untrustworthy just the same. But you've already admitted saying most of what she attributes to you. How do you respond? Do you apologize to the women you've offended? No. A real man would, of course, but you're only interested in spinning every post in a way to make yourself look more important than you really are, or a victim. I doubt this gambit will work for you any longer. Too many respectable LDS apologists/scholars have denounced you as an abusive and foul person who makes the entire apologetic enterprise look bad.
Without a sliver of doubt, had I, in actuality, said such a thing, it would have been preserved and made reference to in perpetuity.
It was deleted by the moderator almost immediately after it was posted. This gives you room to argue that "plausibly" it never happened since there is no definitive proof beyond the testimonies of those who remember seeing it. So this becomes a battle of credibility, and you no longer have any. MsJack and Harmony win this hands down. There is simply no reason for MsJack to lie about this. None. But you have exhibited a willingness to deny statements attributed to you, only because you thought proof didn't exist. And don't forget others remember your disgusting comment too.
Funny how testimonies are the best kind of evidence for Mormon claims, but also the worst kind of evidence when used against Mormon claims.
Very nice work MsJack. I applaud your efforts in this.
From the time I started posting here I was shocked by what I called, at the time, his Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde posting styles between the MDB and MAD boards.
Of course, the focus of this thread is his extreme misogyny and the Pokatator thread well documented his vulgarity. Yet another thread should also emerge to show yet another aspect of William's on-line behavior, which one would assume would embarrass the Church and fellow members and apologists.
William's outright WAR against the Fifth Columnist and his self proclaimed "gift" and calling to root out and destroy such. Apparently his gift has a keen sense to any member who has any levels of respect from the critics or might be bold enough to counter his thoughts in public.
Loap and David B. both fall into this category, with vicious attacks by William against them accusing them of basically being traitors to and enemies of the church.
In the very recent case of David B., it seems clear that William threatened David on-line and went to the lengths of in real life actions of contacting people in an effort to hamper David's professional career goals.
It seems if you are a woman and go up against William you might be getting off easy with being sexually objectified and simply dismissed by him.
Maybe his inner circle of supposed friends/apologist might be silently and uncomfortably hiding their true feelings. Williams form of McCarthyism might well be as intimidating and dangerous as that of the Joseph McCathy's witch hunts of the 50's.
Will Schryver wrote:I had determined to just ignore this thread, since it appeared, at first glance, to be merely a rehash of the same old things said on this board for years. But, in my scanning through it, I came across this statement:
What did harmony edit out of William's post? What could he have possibly said that was so offensive that it was instantly moderated here in the land of free speech for all?
William called her a "c***." Just in case anyone reading this lives a very sheltered life: "c***" is "an abusive term usually considered the most offensive word [in reference to women] and even more forceful than bitch." I realize the original word is no longer preserved in William's post due to harmony's moderation, but there are several members of our community who remember this exchange and can vouch for this.
But remember, it's harmony who supposedly loathes women and being a woman. William has nothing but the utmost respect for his "c***s" and "bitches" and "whores."
This is a shameless and baseless LIE.
Unfortunately, it's the shameless truth and no amount of increased font size will change that. Your ever-descending cycle was only interrupted by being eventually booted from the board.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
harmony wrote:Unfortunately, it's the shameless truth and no amount of increased font size will change that. Your ever-descending cycle was only interrupted by being eventually booted from the board.
So apparently I am going to have to choose between believing Will or believing harmony.
The last time I was confronted with such a difficult choice is when I was trying to decide between having a recreational root canal or going to the movies.
Last edited by Guest on Sun May 01, 2011 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.