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A brief look back and then some commentary

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 6:49 pm
by _stemelbow
What is it about you chumps (I mean that in an endearing way) that get TBMs all worked up? I hate to name names but I'm gonna so I can clarify a bit. Pa pa was around here when I first arrived and man did he fly off the handle. I felt so badly. I remember pa pa when he posted on a evangelical site with me. He seemed so nice then. Certainly people provoked him quite a bit. He pretty much fell prey, as they say--not that he was completely innocent by any means.

Others, including myself, have gotten a bit ruffled by some of the instigatin that goes on here. I see Will consistently refers to the place as the Great and Spacious Trailer Park. Not a bad name if ya think about it. I first came here googling. I arrived seeing that someone, unbeknownst to me, quoted my words from a post I made over at MDD, out of context, to mock and deride. I was like, "What's this about?" I commented and started posting not really taking much here very seriously at all because of that. It threw me off to think there were people reading along at MDD in order to find posts by LDS that could be seen as something to laugh about here. It was all just weird to me. Ol' DJ, who I haven't seen much lately, got after me relentlessly, it seemed, for not taking the comments here seriously. He seemed to get all worked up and never seemed to let it go, even the smallest of points. I didn't get that. He was among the first of the posters I remember encoutering here. One of the first points I recall that he attempted to make was his complaint that some LDS have said “he can leave the church but can’t leave it alone”. He said its best to respond by saying, “well oh yeah, the Church can’t leave everyone alone” (for some reason, which he wouldn’t explain, he highlighted the word everyone for emphasis). I was like, “huh? How do you imagine the Church, which isn’t even known by many people in the world, can’t leave everyone alone”. He went on for pages not really explaining himself. His partners and buddies (whom he deemed his followers) here got after me for challenging him on that, to me, silly point. I really don’t think he ever got over that, seeing as nearly every subsequent post he offered in response to me most often was marked by personal attacks, or efforts to turn the discussion to stem. When challenged at that point, he would say something like, “you aren’t worth my efforts” or something like that. Huh? As you can see, it was very hard to take too much seriously based off these initial encounters.

After a while I realized not every poster here is trolling around the internet hoping to find something to bring here and get someone to join with him/her to mock and deride LDS folks. There can be some serious matters to discuss. There can be some good conversations had. They remain pretty rare though. Some of the best, in my mind, have been those in which people just jovially talk about life without any animosity--things that pertain to family and friends and how best to approach certain situations. I enjoy thinking on that, because afterall in my life one of my main focuses is on those that I love and interact with regularly.

Anyway, with that all said, I also realize Will seems to get your guys’ goats as much if not more than you get LDS’. To be frank, I’m not up on Will’s style, which style, in and of itself, I don’t see as a big deal, but I do have problems with some of the things he has said. Pretty much anything that pertains to ladies seems to be pathetic. In this, I don’t see much problem with some of the character assassination attempts on Will. I think for the most part, his current posts seem much better than some of those that have been quoted to prove him a bad person. And something does ring true when he says this place seems to heat up when he’s around. The activity does seem to increase. That doesn’t seem like a good commentary overall. Inflaming Will, driving wedges, polarizing the issues seems to be a product of what goes on here. Will seems to enjoy helping to drive those wedges deeper as well. I suppose from a critical perspective if there is a black and white, if there is a good and bad side in all this, then cool. I know that can work from a faith perspective too. I personally can’t take things so black and white. So “let’s mock LDS posters, whom we know nothing about, because they are LDS”. If Schryver represents the bad in LDS or apologetics, which I’m not decided upon as yet, this place, in general, seems to represent the exact opposite, which also I don’t see, necessarily, as all that bad. I guess, if nothing else, I’m happy I see the irony in that.

Re: A brief look back and then some commentary

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 7:20 pm
by _Simon Belmont
Good commentary, Stem.

Re: A brief look back and then some commentary

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 7:24 pm
by _LDSToronto
stemelbow wrote: If Schryver represents the bad in LDS or apologetics, which I’m not decided upon as yet, this place, in general, seems to represent the exact opposite, which also I don’t see, necessarily, as all that bad. I guess, if nothing else, I’m happy I see the irony in that.


Schryver doesn't represent the bad in LDS or in apologetics; Schryver represents the bad in human beings.

I'm being serious - no one who calls themselves a decent human being would ever talk the way he does, or say the mean-spirited things he says. The fact that he is LDS has little to do with it.

H.

Re: A brief look back and then some commentary

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 7:26 pm
by _lostindc
has anyone told shriveryer that women now have the right to vote (and read too)?

Re: A brief look back and then some commentary

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 7:27 pm
by _Wisdom Seeker
Simon Belmont wrote:Good commentary, Stem.


We all wished you would have turned out and grown up like your younger brother.

Re: A brief look back and then some commentary

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 7:29 pm
by _stemelbow
LDSToronto wrote:Schryver doesn't represent the bad in LDS or in apologetics; Schryver represents the bad in human beings.

I'm being serious - no one who calls themselves a decent human being would ever talk the way he does, or say the mean-spirited things he says. The fact that he is LDS has little to do with it.

H.


Well that's a little dramatic ain't it? I mean Schryver doesn't go around forcefully and without consent defiling women does he? There is plenty of things that are bad beyond saying sexist things (although to clarify I don't condone rancorous sexist comments appearing in religious debates at all).

Anyway, I hope this doesn't become just another Schryver thread, per se, (realizing it just might). Iget your point to some extent, but there is plenty of other "bad" comments here that aren't authored by Will.

Re: A brief look back and then some commentary

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 7:31 pm
by _stemelbow
Wisdom Seeker wrote:We all wished you would have turned out and grown up like your younger brother.


There are no boys in my family older than I am. I was partly raised by my older sisters, so I know what I'm talking about.

Re: A brief look back and then some commentary

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 7:44 pm
by _LDSToronto
stemelbow wrote:
LDSToronto wrote:Schryver doesn't represent the bad in LDS or in apologetics; Schryver represents the bad in human beings.

I'm being serious - no one who calls themselves a decent human being would ever talk the way he does, or say the mean-spirited things he says. The fact that he is LDS has little to do with it.

H.


Well that's a little dramatic ain't it? I mean Schryver doesn't go around forcefully and without consent defiling women does he? There is plenty of things that are bad beyond saying sexist things (although to clarify I don't condone rancorous sexist comments appearing in religious debates at all).


He absolutely does - read James 3:5-8. Or skip the scriptures completely and ask yourself how you'd feel if Schryver said some of the things to Ms. Stemelbow that he has said to my female friends on this board.

H.

Re: A brief look back and then some commentary

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 7:49 pm
by _stemelbow
LDSToronto wrote:He absolutely does - read James 3:5-8. Or skip the scriptures completely and ask yourself how you'd feel if Schryver said some of the things to Ms. Stemelbow that he has said to my female friends on this board.

H.


I'm not sure how James challenges my point. I've already indicated I don't in anyway condone the things Will has said about women here.

Re: A brief look back and then some commentary

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 9:04 pm
by _Some Schmo
stemelbow wrote: So “let’s mock LDS posters, whom we know nothing about, because they are LDS”.

I don't know that too many people actually do this (if anyone). I certainly don't mock people just because they're LDS. I mock dumb beliefs. I mock intellectual dishonesty. I mock faith because it requires one be irrational. I mock hypocrisy. I mock BS.

There are several Mormons/religious people that have written on this board that I respect for one reason or another (liz, abs-man, Jason, Ceeboo, Jersey Girl, and ttribe come to mind). It doesn't mean I don't recognize that some of the swipes I've taken at religious belief haven't included portions of their world views.

I'm of the opinion, however, that the people I respect deserve my honesty rather than hedging what I think in the name of "religious tolerance." I can say with pride that I have no tolerance for intellectual dishonesty (even my own, when I catch it) and I don't intend to start. I don't think there's anything redeeming about that sort of tolerance, just like I don't tolerate injustices toward women, children, homosexuals, people of another color, etc. Why should I?

I will always speak out against what I consider poor reasoning. It doesn't mean I'm mocking people. It means I'm mocking bad thinking. That's it.

I've mocked your comments on several occasions, stem, when I thought it was appropriate. Lately, however, it seems you're showing us a different side of you, a more reasonable side, and I don't feel moved to mock what you've been saying recently. It doesn't deserve it. I suspect you're being more honest now, and I respect that (my biggest complaint about you when you first started posting was that you sounded like you were full of crap - remember "steaming bowl"?) These days, you aren't giving me the ammo to shoot yourself, so what's there to say?

It always has been and always will be about the ideas or communicated persona, not the people. I don't know the people, but I can see before my very eyes the words on the screen.