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CFR - Simon Belmont
Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 4:06 pm
by _Inconceivable
Apologists will never, never point to specific failures and mistakes of those they say have made failures and mistakes (except possibly that those they deify don't seem to ever mean what they say - wierd).
You are giving Smith a pass for what you consider to be human characteristics. What is it that you are willing to overlook in his behavior? Specifically, what are they?
Since Simon will most likely simply derail the thread to avoid his true intent/thoughts (whatever it may be), anyone else have any thoughts on the subject?
Re: CFR - Simon Belmont
Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 7:51 pm
by _Inconceivable
Simon Belmont wrote:
Yes, people who make one sided arguments do need to be called out. I am calling you out.
No one said Joseph Smith was perfect. No one in history has ever been perfect. Joseph Smith had many failings, made many mistakes, and -- get this -- he was a human being. People who know a lot more about him that you do (including myself) understand the depth of his character. We realize these things, but understand that he was a good man.
viewtopic.php?p=454643#p454643
Re: CFR - Simon Belmont
Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 7:54 pm
by _Simon Belmont
Inconceivable wrote:You are giving Smith a pass for what you consider to be human characteristics. What is it that you are willing to overlook in his behavior? Specifically, what are they?
I am not giving Joseph Smith a "pass" for anything more than I am giving you a "pass" for the mistakes you've made throughout life. Everyone here is well aware of the mistakes Joseph Smith made, why are you asking me to discuss them again, in this thread, when there are plenty of open threads that discuss them?
Re: CFR - Simon Belmont
Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 8:07 pm
by _Inconceivable
Simon Belmont wrote:Inconceivable wrote:You are giving Smith a pass for what you consider to be human characteristics. What is it that you are willing to overlook in his behavior? Specifically, what are they?
I am not giving Joseph Smith a "pass" for anything more than I am giving you a "pass" for the mistakes you've made throughout life. Everyone here is well aware of the mistakes Joseph Smith made, why are you asking me to discuss them again, in this thread, when there are plenty of open threads that discuss them?
because you have never been specific. What specifically are the mistakes and failures
you are aware of? To date, you disagree with what everyone here believes to be his downside.
You are the one that brought it up.
Let's hear it.
CFR
Re: CFR - Simon Belmont
Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 2:40 pm
by _Inconceivable
bump
Re: CFR - Simon Belmont
Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 4:09 pm
by _Doctor CamNC4Me
Hello Mr. Inconceivable,
I believe one of the core Mopologist doctrines is an informal logical fallacy known as the Incomplete Assertion. A complete assertion, such as "Joseph Smith told so-and-so a lie on such-and-such date." could be investigated and possibly confirmed. That's anathema to the Mopologist since remaining ambiguous is of the utmost importance when defending his religion.
Thus, saying "Joseph Smith did things I don't like very much." is an incomplete assertion, and so it can't be refuted. He gains, in his mind, moral authority because he has criticized his own faith, but in reality he's done no such thing and only furthers his agenda of apologia.
V/R
Dr. Cam
Re: CFR - Simon Belmont
Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 6:07 pm
by _sock puppet
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:Hello Mr. Inconceivable,
I believe one of the core Mopologist doctrines is an informal logical fallacy known as the Incomplete Assertion. A complete assertion, such as "Joseph Smith told so-and-so a lie on such-and-such date." could be investigated and possibly confirmed. That's anathema to the Mopologist since remaining ambiguous is of the utmost importance when defending his religion.
Thus, saying "Joseph Smith did things I don't like very much." is an incomplete assertion, and so it can't be refuted. He gains, in his mind, moral authority because he has criticized his own faith, but in reality he's done no such thing and only furthers his agenda of apologia.
V/R
Dr. Cam
Translation: Simon Belmont does not want to leave the target in anyone spot that might yield a proof or disproof by critics, but prefers to keep moving the target so that nothing can ever stick to it.
Re: CFR - Simon Belmont
Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 6:23 pm
by _Doctor Scratch
I hope that Simon appears to offer up an answer. A failure to respond could be devastating to his credibility.
Re: CFR - Simon Belmont
Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 6:34 pm
by _Simon Belmont
The bottom line is that Joseph Smith made many of the same mistakes you or I make. Trying to earn a living in the poverty-stricken frontier America would drive someone to do almost anything for a job -- even if it's only $14 per month. The Smith family sincerely believed in many folk magic practices, and Joseph Smith probably noticed that some people around him were utilizing this folk magic to find things for people, who would then pay them.
Does that make it right? No.
Re: CFR - Simon Belmont
Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 6:36 pm
by _Doctor Scratch
So, you're saying that Joseph Smith deceived people w/ his money digging activities?