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that they should enter into polygamous relationships with their mission president.

From the podcast: http://mormonstories.org/?p=1573

Dr. David Christian, a practicing psychologist and former Mormon, talks about faith-related mental health issues. During the presentation, he related the story above. Apparently the MP during Dr. Christian's mission, like many MPs of a certain era, taught the missionaries to use high pressure techniques to convert and baptize investigators within 24 hours. Using these same techniques he convinced 10 of the mission's 12 sister missionaries - in that they actually got a "spiritual confirmation" - the same confirmation they'd gotten regarding the Book of Mormon, that they were to enter into a polygamous relationship with this man. Apparently they didn't even want to do it, but they were willing to due to the "spirit."

The two Sisters who were less in tune with the Spirit blew the whistle and the MP was replaced.

Isn't it marvelous, beautiful and wonderful?

The teachings of the church teach that the early saints did not desire to practice polygamy, either, and that it was a test and trial for them. This addresses the biggest objection people might have.

Another objection is that it is immoral. This is addressed by the bizarre D&C 132. God's ways are not man's ways. Stop think.

But with Joseph Smith it was different.

Buffalo wrote:
Apparently the MP during Dr. Christian's mission, like many MPs of a certain era, taught the missionaries to use high pressure techniques to convert and baptize investigators within 24 hours.

Using these same techniques he convinced 10 of the mission's 12 sister missionaries - in that they actually got a "spiritual confirmation" - the same confirmation they'd gotten regarding the Book of Mormon, that they were to enter into a polygamous relationship with this man. Apparently they didn't even want to do it, but they were willing to due to the "spirit."

This 24 hour conversion was called the Baptisimal Discussion (or BD). As I recall, Loren C. Dunn had a lot to do with the creation of this scheming abomination as well. It consisted of coercing anyone into the church house for a penecostal type hammer session that would sometimes last late into the night and end in a baptism. The retention rates were horrible as well as the negative reactions from active members that it was summarilly tabled. But this existed for over a year or more.

When I entered the Melbourne mission in about 1982, the BP was dead (and rightly so). However, many of the peer leadership (AP's and Zone leaders) were veteran enough to have either participated or had trainers that did. The program had morphed into the equally ridiculous "7 Day Conversion Program". What continued was the motto, "Commit Their Faces Off" as well as several well contrived psychological tactics to assure this success. For me, I dealt with a great deal of anxiety until I became somewhat comfortable with this craft.

Sorry if this is a derail Buffalo. I listened to Christian's seminar. It was very enlightening. 6 years ago I probably would have considered burning this guy at the stake (as a wolf). Now I think I understand and embrace much of what he presents.

The world is so much bigger than this little insignificant abhoration called Mormonism.

Inconceivable wrote:

Buffalo wrote:
Apparently the MP during Dr. Christian's mission, like many MPs of a certain era, taught the missionaries to use high pressure techniques to convert and baptize investigators within 24 hours.

Using these same techniques he convinced 10 of the mission's 12 sister missionaries - in that they actually got a "spiritual confirmation" - the same confirmation they'd gotten regarding the Book of Mormon, that they were to enter into a polygamous relationship with this man. Apparently they didn't even want to do it, but they were willing to due to the "spirit."

This 24 hour conversion was called the Baptisimal Discussion (or BD). As I recall, Loren C. Dunn had a lot to do with the creation of this scheming abomination as well. It consisted of coercing anyone into the church house for a penecostal type hammer session that would sometimes last late into the night and end in a baptism. The retention rates were horrible as well as the negative reactions from active members that it was summarilly tabled. But this existed for over a year or more.

When I entered the Melbourne mission in about 1982, the BP was dead (and rightly so). However, many of the peer leadership (AP's and Zone leaders) were veteran enough to have either participated or had trainers that did. The program had morphed into the equally ridiculous "7 Day Conversion Program". What continued was the motto, "Commit Their Faces Off" as well as several well contrived psychological tactics to assure this success. For me, I dealt with a great deal of anxiety until I became somewhat comfortable with this craft.

Sorry if this is a derail Buffalo. I listened to Christian's seminar. It was very enlightening. 6 years ago I probably would have considered burning this guy at the stake (as a wolf). Now I think I understand and embrace much of what he presents.

The world is so much bigger than this little insignificant abhoration called Mormonism.

Interesting. In my mission I heard stories upon arriving from the more seasoned Elders - that they had to actually play act the first vision. IE get down on their knees and play the part of Joseph Smith. I thought I dodged a bullet, but things were much worse than that. Mormon missionary work has a pretty shady history.

Buffalo wrote:Interesting. In my mission I heard stories upon arriving from the more seasoned Elders - that they had to actually play act the first vision. IE get down on their knees and play the part of Joseph Smith. I thought I dodged a bullet, but things were much worse than that. Mormon missionary work has a pretty shady history.

My trainer had memorized what were called the "Rainbow Discussions". Each of the 7 Discussions were approximately 45minutes long (and he still worked off of them as I recall). Even the bearing of testimony was specifically scripted - In other words's - "Mr. & Mrs. Smith, I want to tell you that I know that Joseph Smith was a POG" etc.

We were also required to challenge (and extract a commitment) for baptism on the first visit. We still called this one pager the "Baptisimal Discussion", but it was "taught" along with the first (restoration)discussion.

I found that incredibly odd that my trainer had been required to memorize a scripted testimony. Now I realize there was really no difference between mine and his anyways.

DarkHelmet wrote:But with Joseph Smith it was different.

If JSJr returned to the earth, in another body, with another identity, but the same personality, he'd be drummed out of the LDS Church in short order for his shenanigans. No way he could last 5 years as a member of the current LDS Church.

sock puppet wrote:

DarkHelmet wrote:But with Joseph Smith it was different.

If JSJr returned to the earth, in another body, with another identity, but the same personality, he'd be drummed out of the LDS Church in short order for his shenanigans. No way he could last 5 years as a member of the current LDS Church.

Drummed out of the Methodists (I believe) in his own lifetime. Drummed out of a few communities (with his followers) as well. He must not have played well with others.

DarkHelmet wrote:But with Joseph Smith it was different.

sock puppet wrote:If JSJr returned to the earth, in another body, with another identity, but the same personality, he'd be drummed out of the LDS Church in short order for his shenanigans. No way he could last 5 years as a member of the current LDS Church.

Quasimodo wrote:Drummed out of the Methodists (I believe) in his own lifetime. Drummed out of a few communities (with his followers) as well. He must not have played well with others.

Word has it, Quasi, he played too well with others' wives and daughters.

sock puppet wrote:Word has it, Quasi, he played too well with others' wives and daughters.

And with the banking system. I suspect the bank debacle and a few other financial indiscretions were the real reason the Mormons were despised and chased away. People will put up with a lot sexual improprieties , but when it comes to money, they draw the line.