DiscussMormonism.com

I was asked by a friend to read this article: http://www.mormontimes.com/article/2098 ... ueue_title

So I did.

DCP refers to an article written by Susan Black and Charles Tate in 1993 called, "The Joseph Smith, Sr., Family: Farmers of the Genesee"(1), which is noted by DCP as a "path-breaking" article, providing "hard evidence" and delivering a "serious blow" to allegations made in the Hurlbut-Howe(2) affidavits that claim the Smiths were lazy. The evidence is founded on the work done by Donald L. Enders, a senior curator at the Museum of Church History and Art in Salt Lake City.

Mr. Enders was apparently able to demonstrate solid evidence of hard work done by the Smiths using the following materials at hand:

* land and tax records
* farm account books and related correspondence
* soil surveys
* horticultural studies
* surveys of historic buildings
* archaeological reports
* interviews with agricultural historians and other specialists

From this research, Enders concluded ("on questions of testable fact") that the Hurlbut-Howe affidavits cannot be trusted. The evidence shows that many trees and rocks had to be cleared from the Smith family farm site without modern tools and machinery. It is also shown that the Smiths had to find odd jobs (in addition to keeping up the property) to pay rent. It was also found that the Smith's property appraised at a higher value than their neighbors, including the lazy bozos who wrote the affidavits. We can safely conclude using DCP's own words: The Smiths turn out to not be the "local trash" in the community after all. Thank God!

My response to this is not one of surprise. I would suspect that all people that worked farms in that era were hard working folks. If you were not hard working, you didn't survive.

Luckily for Joseph Smith, he was able to find a desk job later on without having the money for a proper education.

I would actually like to see more of Ender's work. I would bet his research was pretty fascinating.

Sources:
1. Susan Easton Black and Charles D. Tate, Jr., editors, "Joseph Smith: The Prophet, the Man," Provo: Religious Studies Center, Brigham Young University, 1993, 213-25
2. Howe, Eber D., "Mormonism Unvailed". 1834

Am I correct in thinking that the bank foreclosed on them because they weren't paying their way?

And that a local Quaker bailed them out and allowed them to live there on the cheap?

And that the Quakers name was 'Lemuel'?

Does Enders argue that glass-looking was harder, more demanding work than the poor guys that were working the shovels digging for treasure at the spot where JSJr told them?

I suspect the accusations of laziness spring more from a resentment of the Smiths' free-loading behavior (e.g. getting free money and sheep from their neighbors to finance magic and money-digging ventures) than from a conviction that they never did any honest work.

However, there is an interesting statement in Richard Bushman's biography concerning the Kirtland period. It went something like this: "How Joseph earned his living during these years is a mystery. None of his journals or letters record any farm labor..." etc.

The bottom line is that Joseph had a knack for convincing people to give him money and resources. I'm sure he did some honest work here and there, but he also obtained a lot of money through less industrious means.

CaliforniaKid wrote:The bottom line is that Joseph had a knack for convincing people to give him money and resources. I'm sure he did some honest work here and there, but he also obtained a lot of money through less industrious means.

Hard work can be a motivator to find better ways to make money. Why do so many want to go to college then go after a back breaking job?

Do you think it's offensive for a TBM to hear that Joseph Smith had a desk job later in life? Do you think they get offended when I tell them his neighbors might have been frustrated with him for trying to make a living treasure seeking? I tried to say this in a really nice way after explaining that I feel you had to be a hard worker back then to survive on a startup farm. I'm afraid the only thing that won't be offensive to them is: "You are right, Joseph Smith was a hard worker at times. Therefore I must conclude he was an honest to God prophet." Nothing else will do, I'm afraid.

This is one of the many non-issues of Mormon apologetics. It is almost the equivalent of "I don't like the way Joseph Smith looks." It is one of the stock accusations leveled against philosophers and religious figures from time immemorial. In fact, if I were to write on the issue, I think that is the tack I would take instead of "let me prove to you that the Smiths were upright, industrious folk."

Yawn.

zeezrom wrote:Do you think it's offensive for a TBM to hear that Joseph Smith had a desk job later in life? Do you think they get offended when I tell them his neighbors might have been frustrated with him for trying to make a living treasure seeking? I tried to say this in a really nice way after explaining that I feel you had to be a hard worker back then to survive on a startup farm. I'm afraid the only thing that won't be offensive to them is: "You are right, Joseph Smith was a hard worker at times. Therefore I must conclude he was an honest to God prophet." Nothing else will do, I'm afraid.

I think most TBMs would be offended by ANY description of Joseph Smith that portray him as anything short of the honest, faithful, hard-working, unselfish suffering saint we all thought we was growing up.

Hard working = ethical, honest and moral prophet

fuzzy math?

Wait, this thread is several hours old and Pahoran isn't in here shooting his mouth off at everything?

Simon is going to be upstaged by this stooge from Mormondum.