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In another thread I asked if anyone knew more about the details of the rediscovery of the 1832 first vision account? The basic information I can find is limited. But what I find interesting is that it was the work of a church member or members that led to it's rediscovery. And it was a BYU publication that first reported about it.

I've seen many critical arguments against the first vision based on the mere existance of these multiple, slightly varied accounts. Yet it seems the critics are reinventing history when you do so. Before this account surfaced, the critcism seems to have been that there were no early accounts before the mid- to late 1830's.

This topic seems to have influenced some people here in deciding to leave the church, so I was wondering if, in your studies, you found the information I'm seeking and if this additional detail added to, or at a min. had a null influence on your decision to leave?

1 Iron wrote:In another thread I asked if anyone knew more about the details of the rediscovery of the 1832 first vision account? The basic information I can find is limited. But what I find interesting is that it was the work of a church member or members that led to it's rediscovery. And it was a BYU publication that first reported about it.

I've seen many critical arguments against the first vision based on the mere existance of these multiple, slightly varied accounts. Yet it seems the critics are reinventing history when you do so. Before this account surfaced, the critcism seems to have been that there were no early accounts before the mid- to late 1830's.

This topic seems to have influenced some people here in deciding to leave the church, so I was wondering if, in your studies, you found the information I'm seeking and if this additional detail added to, or at a min. had a null influence on your decision to leave?

Can you post the 1832 account so we have something tangible to work with? Just an fyi, I have not left the Church, the first vision variations are troublesome, and I consider myself a cafeteria Mormon at this point. I do not see myself becoming TBM over some basic clarification of first vision differences. There are far too many other issues such as Moroni or Nephi or whatever plagiarizing the King James Version of the Bible.

lostindc -

You can find the 1832 account here: Early Accounts of the First Visions. The PDF this page links to includes all of the markings, such as strikeouts and additions which I find interesting. The account of the "first vision" as we call it today is on page 6 of the PDF.

I'll quote it as best as I can using copy-paste. I'm not sure if some of the formating will be lost, so I'd still recommend looking at the original link as well.

"At about the age of twelve years my mind
became seriously imprest with regard to the all importent concerns for the
wellfare of my immortal Soul which led me to searching the Scriptures
believeing as I was taught, that they contained the word of God thus applying
myself to them and my intimate acquaintance with those of differant denominations led me to marvel excedingly for I discovered that they (^did not adorn)
their profession by a holy walk and Godly conversation agreeable to what
I found contained in that sacred depository. this was a grief to my Soul thus
from the age of twelve years to fifteen I pondered many things in my heart
concerning the sittuation of the world of mankind the contentions and divions
the wickeness and abominations and the darkness which pervaded the of
the minds of mankind my mind become excedingly distressed for I became
convicted of my Sins and by searching the Scriptures I found that mankind did
not come unto the Lord but that they had apostatised from the true and liveing
faith and there was no society or denomination that built upon the
Gospel of Jesus Christ as recorded in the new testament and I felt to mourn
for my own Sins and for the Sins of the world for I learned in the Scriptures
that God was the same yesterday to day and forever that he was no respecter
to persons for he was God for I looked upon the sun the glorious luminary of
the earth and also the moon rolling in their magesty through the heavens and
also the stars shining in their courses and the earth also upon which I stood
and the beast of the field and the fowls of heaven and the fish of the waters
and also man walking forth upon the face of the earth in magesty and in the
strength of beauty whose power and intiligence in governing the things
which are so exceding great and marvilous even in the likeness of him who
created them and when I considered upon these things my heart exclaimed
well hath the wise man said that it is a fool that saith in his heart there is no God my
heart exclained all all these bear testimony and bespeak an omnipotent and
omnipreasant power a being who makith Laws and decreeeth and bindeth all
things in their bounds who filleth Eternity who was and is and will be fron
all Eternity to Eternity and when I considered all these things and that
being seeketh such to worship him as worship him in spirit and in truth
therefore I cried unto the Lord for mercy for there was none else to whom I
could go and to obtain mercy and the Lord heard my cry in the wilderness
the in the 16th year of my age and while in the attitude of calling upon the Lord a piller of light above the brightness of the sun at noon day come down from above and rested
upon me and I was filled with the spirit of God and the Lord opened the heavens
upon me and I saw the Lord and he spake unto me saying Joseph my son thy Sins
are forgiven thee. go thy way walk in my statutes and keep commandments
behold I am the Lord of glory I was crucifyed for the world that all those who
believe on my name may have Eternal life behold the world lieth in sin and at this
time and none doeth good no not one they have turned asside from the
Gospel and keep not my commandments they draw near to me with their lips
while their hearts are far from me and mine anger is kindling against the
inhabitants of the earth to visit them acording to this ungodliness and to
bring to pass that which hath been spoken by the mouth of the prophets and
Apostles behold and lo I come quickly as it written of me in the cloud clothed in the
glory of my Father and my soul was filled with love and for many days I could
rejoice with great joy and the Lord was with me but could find none that
would believe the hevenly vision. . . ."

joethefuturecoxman wrote: "by searching the Scriptures I found that mankind did
not come unto the Lord but that they had apostatised from the true and liveing
faith and there was no society or denomination that built upon the
Gospel of Jesus Christ as recorded in the new testament "
*********************
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Such an amazing teenager. Searching the scriptures he compared them to every Christian sect in the world and found his own truth. How luck we all are.

Joseph wrote:joethefuturecoxman wrote: "by searching the Scriptures I found that mankind did
not come unto the Lord but that they had apostatised from the true and liveing
faith and there was no society or denomination that built upon the
Gospel of Jesus Christ as recorded in the new testament "
*********************
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Such an amazing teenager. Searching the scriptures he compared them to every Christian sect in the world and found his own truth. How luck we all are.

Hello Joseph,

If you don't mind me asking, what exactly bothers you about this statement? I would assume that your description of Joseph Smith as a future coxman (whatever that may mean?) shows you currently do not view the church in favorable light.

So my second question to you is - if you are condemning Joseph for "Reasoning out in his mind" that there are issues with other churches prior to taking it to the Lord, what method did you use to decide to either leave or not join?

In other words, you seem to be lording it over Joseph Smith for doing what you likely did, only without your having gone to God with the results.

Joe was a conman who made up the whole thing. He used his skills to fool people and many bought it. He then used his position of leadership to rack up sack time with many women, some the wives of his own fellow leaders.

He should have been castrated early.

His accounts change as they go along, each building a bit on the earlier ones.

In most things this is called lying.

Joseph Smith was a man who was called as a prophet of God. He was blessed by God to help usher in the restoration in this last dispensation.

A serious, unbiased reading of his first vision accounts does not reveal changes of content, only changes in focus.

You'd be a better person if you'd focus on things that are good, beautiful, and true rather than whatever makes you such a sour person as you appear to be in these posts.

There - we both can say things that we believe are true without having to make an actual case. How fun!

1 Iron wrote:A serious, unbiased reading of his first vision accounts does not reveal changes of content, only changes in focus.

I think it may be more accrurate to change unbiased to biased here. :)

That said, I doubt very many have left the church due to this issue alone. There are much bigger problems then this, but yes there are some problems with the differeent accounts. In the 1832 account you have Joseph commenting that he had already found out that all the churches had apostatised before even going to God, while the canonized account Joseph says it never entered his mind. Seems a little wierd that he would have fairly opposite recollections of the same event. We also see that God and Jesus appearing only later on while early accounts have only Jesus, and some evidence says only an angel. Now if I had God and Jesus appear I don't think I would ignore either of them, and maybe even worse is that the evolution from One being to two fits with Joseph changing view of the Godhead. If he had indeed seen both God and Jesus, that should have been doctrine from the b4eggining and not a triniatrain view of the Godhead we see from the Book of Mormon and early church teachings.

It's actually one of the things we look at to see if ones story is true is whether it stays fairly consistent. Sure focus can change, but the events should not.

To me the changes to the FV story coupled with the changes to LDS theology and scripture are what is disconcerting.

The LDS church teaches that the FV was a visitation rather than a vision. Interpretation of visions can change. Visitations...not so much.
The First Vision wasn't even something much talked about the first, what, fifty years the church was around. Now it is central.