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It dawned on me that religious institutions likely were not very interested in charity. Take the religions of Egypt, for example. Wasn't this belief system mostly focused on doing well in the afterlife?

How much does the Old Testament discuss charity? From what I recall, not much relative to everything else.

It seems the early Christian church was focused mainly on spreading the word and less on feeding hungry people or preventing/treating dysentery, etc.

I can think of quite a few instances where Christ is speaking out as an advocate for the person who has less, so it appears the New Testament is focused somewhat on charity. But even Christ seemed to be very interested in finding believers and followers of a set of ideas, no?

So, maybe charity really doesn't belong in religion. Maybe the two just don't work together very well. In religion, the preacher is constantly looking for ways to get people to join him. There is always that factor in there somewhere, somehow. The object of being sincere is a little slippery, in cases like this.

Has anyone heard of a religion that sprouted up from a single need: feed and help the less fortunate? Would that not end up being a secular organization out of necessity?

zeezrom wrote:How much does the Old Testament discuss charity? From what I recall, not much relative to everything else.

Old Testament Literary Prophets are all over this Zeez, major major theme.

zeezrom wrote:It dawned on me that religious institutions likely were not very interested in charity.

Charity is in many ways the least religious of a religion's activities. Anyone can be involved in charity. Historically it was less religious institutions involved in charity and more religious individuals.

Take the religions of Egypt, for example. Wasn't this belief system mostly focused on doing well in the afterlife?

The religion of Egypt was mostly concerned with cycles and permanence. Vagrancy was a crime since at least the Middle Kingdom so beggars probably didn't fare well.

How much does the Old Testament discuss charity? From what I recall, not much relative to everything else.

Quite a bit actually. The economic aspects of the Law of Moses largely relate to being willing to give up property to help others. Amos decried big business and land-grabbing so that the poor had no place in the land.

It seems the early Christian church was focused mainly on spreading the word and less on feeding hungry people or preventing/treating dysentery, etc.

True, though the New Testament is clear both were important.

I can think of quite a few instances where Christ is speaking out as an advocate for the person who has less, so it appears the New Testament is focused somewhat on charity. But even Christ seemed to be very interested in finding believers and followers of a set of ideas, no?

Yes, it was more important. "Your fathers ate manna in the wilderness and are dead."

So, maybe charity really doesn't belong in religion.

This I disagree with.

Has anyone heard of a religion that sprouted up from a single need: feed and help the less fortunate? Would that not end up being a secular organization out of necessity?

Not a wholesale religion focused solely on that. That wouldn't be a religion. It would be a philosophical organization...maybe. That might even be a stretch. Man's search for meaning is religion not his search for bread.

The Salvation Army comes close though in that it was mostly created for that purpose.

zeezrom wrote:Has anyone heard of a religion that sprouted up from a single need: feed and help the less fortunate? Would that not end up being a secular organization out of necessity?

If you could consider Albert Schweitzer, Gandhi and a few others as "one man religions", maybe. I guess that they could also be classed as secular. Maybe that's your point.

When someone is trying to benefit the needy without proselytizing, they should be called secular (and Saints).

MrStakhanovite wrote:

zeezrom wrote:How much does the Old Testament discuss charity? From what I recall, not much relative to everything else.

Old Testament Literary Prophets are all over this Zeez, major major theme.

Yes, very true. In Zee's defense, the LDS church routinely ignores all of the major and minor prophets except for the Isaiah passages that can be interpreted to be predicting Jesus and a few proof texts here and there.

Jesus put a huge emphasis on helping the poor and needy.

Religion being the world oldest profession had its roots in supply and demand. Sometimes this supply was combined with the world's second oldest profession, but professional jealousy no doubt lead to the eventual termination of these combined efforts.

zeezrom wrote:It seems the early Christian church was focused mainly on spreading the word and less on feeding hungry people or preventing/treating dysentery, etc.

I can think of quite a few instances where Christ is speaking out as an advocate for the person who has less, so it appears the New Testament is focused somewhat on charity. But even Christ seemed to be very interested in finding believers and followers of a set of ideas, no?

Zee,

I would recommend reading Rodney Stark's "The Rise of Christianity." He analyzes the rise of Christianity prior to Constantine using statistical models. He posits that Christians did remarkably well because charity was such a big part of the message and was practiced. He cites two examples

Example #1: Infanticide of females was extremely common in the late Roman Empire. There is hard evidence to back this up. However, Christians did not practice infanticide of females. What this means is that Christians had a substantial breeding advantage compared to their pagan neighbors, simply because there were more Christian females than pagan females (as a % of the group's population).

Example #2: Christians provided basic nursing care to each other. Studies show that sick people are 25-30% more likely to survive disease if they can just get food and water. In the late Roman Empire it was routine to simply leave diseased and sick persons. If they were too weak to get their own food and water they would literally die of starvation/dehydration. Christians practiced charity and provided this basic function to other Christians. This gave them a substantial advantage in survival rates when a plague or disease would ravage a town.

The bottom line is that charity was a big thing among early Christians, and it gave them substantial advantages over their pagan neighbors according to Stark's data.

Just to be ecumenical, charity is one of the pillars of Islam.

moksha wrote:Jesus put a huge emphasis on helping the poor and needy.

Religion being the world oldest profession had its roots in supply and demand. Sometimes this supply was combined with the world's second oldest profession, but professional jealousy no doubt lead to the eventual termination of these combined efforts.

LOL! I've heard it the other way around, but I like your take on it. Perhaps the two professions were inseparable at one point.

Aristotle Smith wrote:Yes, very true. In Zee's defense, the LDS church routinely ignores all of the major and minor prophets except for the Isaiah passages that can be interpreted to be predicting Jesus and a few proof texts here and there.

I don't count as part of the LDS church then? My favorite of them is Zechariah. Trippier then Revelation.