DiscussMormonism.com

I hope the fanfare has died down sufficiently to point out the positives in the William Schryver (WS from here on out) fiasco. I'm not an optimist by nature, but I think that everyone came out a winner.

MsJack: First and foremost, MsJack came out of the WS situation as the biggest winner. I have followed MsJack's posts for a few years now and I can tell you one thing about her: There is no bigger champion of Mormon women than is MsJack. What's more, her unique position allows her to do something about it, she's not a member so there is literally nothing the church can do to her. By pointing our WS's misogyny she struck a blow for Mormon women everywhere. I think this also points out one of the unfortunate truths about the LDS church and its subsidiaries: it is more likely to do the right thing when interested outsiders agitate on behalf of doing the right thing. Hooray for MsJack and her example of being a passionate outsider fighting for truth and justice inside Mormondom.

NAMIRS/FARMS: WS has provided a valuable service for the ladies and gentlemen of FARMS for the past few years. They have been able to ignore the Book of Abraham (Book of Abraham) issue. Any inquiry into Book of Abraham problems could be met with the following excuse, "Yes, I know that seems like a problem but some interesting and valuable research is coming to light soon which will clarify a lot of these issues. Instead of jumping the gun, let's just wait for this new research, which should come real soon." The beauty of being able to say that is that it was at least in theory 100% accurate, but it also let the researchers stop trying to figure out a way to explain the Book of Abraham.

But FARMS also comes out a double winner. They now get to come out as anti-misogyny and pro-women (sort of). In the 21st century being able to do this is always a winning proposition, and it would not have been possible if MsJack had not forced the issue. FARMS really should send MsJack flowers and candy for providing them with this golden opportunity.

LDS Church: How many people's testimonies were salvaged or apostasies slowed down because of WS's supposed new research? While those on the boards would say "none," I'm not so sure about that. I'm guessing at least a few people had their testimonies saved or they at least put off their eventual apostasy for a few months or years. After all, why apostasize when not all of the facts are in? This has kept people serving the LDS church and paying tithing to the LDS church, which is a big win for the LDS church.

The Message Boards: All of the conversations about WS's future grand publications are now over. People can get back to discussing actual Book of Abraham issues, and not some theoretical game changer that will arrive sometime in the future.

William Schryver: Last but not least, WS is a big winner too. He was able to play a shell game for years in the name of defending the church. That's got to earn some points, maybe enough to get that calling and election made sure. If sticking your neck out for the church can't earn your calling and election made sure, what could?

WS also no longer has to write his paper. I'm guessing there never was any intention of writing a paper and that he hasn't even started on it. The whole point of the drama over the past few years was to play an elaborate shell game on behalf of FARMS and the LDS church while WS had a little fun on the message boards. The misogyny was unfortunate, but there had to be something keeping people interested in the shell game. You can only say "I've got a game changer which will be published real soon" so many times before people start ignoring you. However, if you throw in some controversy and drama it keeps people interested and you can extend the drama exponentially. It's too bad WS couldn't find something a little less disgusting and vulgar to keep the game going, but no one is perfect and miracles are hard to come by (yes, that was a little WS pun thrown in for old time's sake).

So all in all, Everyone's a winner!

I think you have very much over-stated most of this, but oh well.

At least now there's another Will Schryver thread here, that will no doubt, be filled with all sorts of anti-Will hostilities. Big winner here: The Church. Some here, who are normally against the Church on nearly every issue, can focus on Will Schryver. In essence Will has been nothing but a big distraction to many posters here. He probably did it all intentionally, just so save people from a few more of those rants about the church.

Am I the only one who feels like a big loser in this whole affair? I'm pretty sure I've lost a few brain cells, as they say, and I know I've been quite bored with this place over the past few weeks (then again that might be seen as a win).

Aristotle Smith,

You are certainly a cheery and optimistic fellow. And this time I would guess that you have it about right.

It would not surprise me if the WS "paper" was about as far along as the Simon Belmont "papers" turned out to be. If this was the case, then WS dodged a bullet.

DrW wrote:Aristotle Smith,

You are certainly a cheery and optimistic fellow. And this time I would guess that you have it about right.

It would not surprise me if the WS "paper" was about as far along as the Simon Belmont "papers" turned out to be. If this was the case, then WS dodged a bullet.

This seems likely, given the high bluster to substance ratio coming from WS.

The biggest losers are clearly wade and droopy, both of whom took on the idiotic task of blindly defending William's behavior, at all costs it seems. They assumed, incorrectly, that their LDS scholars would have their back on this one. They were terribly wrong about that. But then again, William assumed this too.

Too bad the biggest champion for Mormon women is not a Mormon! That said, I love what MsJack is doing and think very highly of her. Hopefully we can also get a Mormon woman to be another big time champion of Mormon women.

Maybe Joanna Brooks? I don't know.

DrW wrote:It would not surprise me if the WS "paper" was about as far along as the Simon Belmont "papers" turned out to be. If this was the case, then WS dodged a bullet.

If I were a betting man, I would have put some money that at best WS's "paper" is a set of notes on the back of a Hooters napkin.

Kevin Graham wrote:The biggest losers are clearly wade and droopy, both of whom took on the idiotic task of blindly defending William's behavior, at all costs it seems. They assumed, incorrectly, that their LDS scholars would have their back on this one. They were terribly wrong about that. But then again, William assumed this too.

Well, some people really enjoy being on the losing side of things I guess. Even scum of the earth can count on some support to the bitter end, after all Hitler was not alone in his Berlin bunker when he killed himself.

zeezrom wrote:Too bad the biggest champion for Mormon women is not a Mormon! That said, I love what MsJack is doing and think very highly of her. Hopefully we can also get a Mormon woman to be another big time champion of Mormon women.

For a Mormon to be an effective advocate on a global scale, there has to be a willingness to lose church membership over certain issues. Most Mormons are not willing to take that chance. Thankfully, MsJack doesn't have to face that choice.

If MsJack is the champion of Mormon women, I feel sorry for Mormon women. Hopefully, Mormon women are a little more good natured than MsJack who lately seems to have drunk a lot of vinegar. Also, most Mormon women do not give a fig who writes what on the internet. They are busy living and doing life.

I think that even MsJack realized that she is coming across as a person who also ate sour grapes. Hopefully, Mormon women have a much more pleasant demeanor.

Aristotle Smith wrote:If I were a betting man, I would have put some money that at best WS's "paper" is a set of notes on the back of a Hooters napkin.

Well, some people really enjoy being on the losing side of things I guess. Even scum of the earth can count on some support to the bitter end, after all Hitler was not alone in his Berlin bunker when he killed himself.

.

Gosh, how fortunate that you are an exmo. Being exmo, you are perfectly free to write such spiteful things. As a Mormon on this board, you would be expected to rise above such petty posts as yours and remain kind, humble, and full of love for people like yourself.

why me wrote:If MsJack is the champion of Mormon women, I feel sorry for Mormon women.

Who would you suggest Mr. not active Catholic Mormon?

Hopefully, Mormon women are a little more good natured than MsJack who lately seems to have drunk a lot of vinegar.

I find Ms Jack extremely pleasant, intelligent and bright. I read almost every post she makes. Her wit, writing ability and knowledge is impressive. She is much younger than me and I wish I were half as smart on many subjects that she seems to be.

Also, most Mormon women do not give a fig who writes what on the internet. They are busy living and doing life.

You are probably correct. But if you check out the bloggernacle there are a lot of Mormon women blogging on lots of things and not all those things are mainstream LDS issues. They often address women issues. LDS women have much more of a voice on such things in cyberspace than they ever have in the ward houses where they attend church.

And I will let you know a secret. I sit on a stake public affairs committee as part of my calling. I just went to a training meeting given by a full time public affiars employee for the area where I live. He commented that most the LDS blogs out there are by women in their late 20s to mid 30s.

Oh and as a side note, the fellow doing the training reiterated that in our dealings with people in cyberspace we must be kind and Christ like. We should not be contentious, etc. I asked him how the Church felt about some defenders of the faith that are not really acting of the mold that would be considered Christ like, and in fact that many can be very contentious and very mean, even some that are prominent. This man said the church leaders are aware of this and are trying to curb it.

I think that even MsJack realized that she is coming across as a person who also ate sour grapes. Hopefully, Mormon women have a much more pleasant demeanor.

You only say this because you disagree with her.