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How many posters on MD were once apologists? I have to think quite a few. Pondering this topic I am reminded of this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12258&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

It looks like Runtu, Kevin Graham, Brent Metcalf, Paul Osborne, and others were once apologists. How many other former apologists exist on this board? What made you jump sides?

I believe that other current apologist will likely follow trend and abort the apologetic party line. It appears that the barrier between Mormon apologist and non-Mormon is a great deal thinner than what is portrayed.

Excellent question, lostindc! I'm a nevermo, but I'm very interested to hear the results.

Half way through my mission i started becoming an apologist. A little over half a year after my mission, participating on the MAD board and actually reading all the sources rather than only reading the FAIR/FARMS / apologetics it wasn't long before I gave up on apologetics. Another year later I was an apostate. Apologetics put my testimony in ruin faster and harsher than any "anti-mormon" material.

I still remember going on MADb and always getting a kick out of DCP, hamblin, etc. remarks, witty insults, dismissals, and their overall argumentative and superior behavior/attitude towards most critics. It was amusing for a month or two, then it became a tiresome. They rarely addressed the criticism and when called out would simply paste FAIR/FARM links as a response. Naturally I read it all and in many cases the links never answered the questions or were simply inadequate. It wasn't long before I got sick of this behavior and began to question many of the conclusions. After reading all sources, both pro and critical, it wasn't long before I found myself disagreeing with many of the apologist responses. Another very problematic behavior with the apologists was to simply dismiss the prophets, seers and revelators they profess to believe in. It did not matter if the prophet said he was speaking in the name of the Lord, it was simply his opinion if in fact what he said was at odds with the apologist' conclusions. Eventually it was too much work to try to find a way to believe in the church when its prophets are anything but that, the apologists lie about doctrine and practice character assassination rather than attempt to give rebuttals to the criticism, and the church can't be honest about its past and present. Thanks MAD, FAIR, FARMS, and all you rambunctious apologists, you made it all so clear.

Even though he doesn't post on MD, I have to mention Chris Tolworthy. He's a poster on FLAK or maybe postmormon, I can't remember which. He was a fairly high-profile internet defender of the faith who was co-creator of the apologetic website "Why Prophets".

I started out as an online apologist. I was nowhere nearly as into apologetics as, say, Kevin Graham, but I was consciously doing apologetics all the same. It didn't take me very long before I found myself reflecting on some of the apologetic arguments I was reading online and elsewhere and seeing that I did not agree with them. I was especially puzzled by some of the FARMS book reviews. They seemed to me to be inaccurate and mean spirited.

Having gone to BYU specifically to study with Hugh Nibley, I was now on a path that led me directly out of activity in the Church. Apologetics played a pretty big role in shaping my critical perspective.

xolotl wrote:Eventually it was too much work to try to find a way to believe in the church when its prophets are anything but that, the apologists lie about doctrine and practice character assassination rather than attempt to give rebuttals to the criticism, and the church can't be honest about its past and present.

Other then saying the church is not true, what chioce did they have when you don't have the facts to back you up?

lostindc wrote:How many posters on MD were once apologists? I have to think quite a few. Pondering this topic I am reminded of this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12258&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

It looks like Runtu, Kevin Graham, Brent Metcalf, Paul Osborne, and others were once apologists. How many other former apologists exist on this board? What made you jump sides?

I believe that other current apologist will likely follow trend and abort the apologetic party line. It appears that the barrier between Mormon apologist and non-Mormon is a great deal thinner than what is portrayed.

I never posted as an apologist. I never even started posting until over a year after being on many of these sites. At that point I had reserched to much to be honest and an apologist at the same time. It really was places like fair and farms that helped to open the eyes.

I developed my love of philosophy by reading apologetic texts. Say what you will about Nibley's actual arguments, the man has panache in his writing. Nibley led me to Brody, and his critique of Brody rang hollow after I read No Man Knows My History. I did read the FARMS review of books, and I reveled in the irreverent treatment of those who were obviously in the wrong.

Then I turned 18, went to BYU, fell in with Randians, dropped Ayn, became a Mormon socialist, dropped socialism, went on a mission and found myself face to face with the corporate Mormon culture... emphasis on the Cult.

I was quite experienced in apologist arguments, and I spent a fair amount of time talking with other apologists on various forums and email lists. However, the philosophy instruction from Nibley and the other apologists I'd read led me into philosophy classes... where the misuse of ideas becomes rather blatant among apologists, and even more grating when you get blatant logical fallacies from the pulpit at General conference.

I guess I was sort of an apologist. I never sallied forth to do battle, but I did talk about it quite a bit. Apologetic's was the gateway drug to philosophy, history and critical theory.

lostindc wrote:How many posters on MD were once apologists? I have to think quite a few. Pondering this topic I am reminded of this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12258&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

It looks like Runtu, Kevin Graham, Brent Metcalf, Paul Osborne, and others were once apologists. How many other former apologists exist on this board? What made you jump sides?

I believe that other current apologist will likely follow trend and abort the apologetic party line. It appears that the barrier between Mormon apologist and non-Mormon is a great deal thinner than what is portrayed.

Professionally? No. But I defended Mormonism on the internet (and on my mission). So, sort of, yeah.

I have never been a true apologist but as a devout, believing member felt like I was a vocal defender of the LDS church in my little corner of the world.

This would have been pre-Internet so I followed the requests of the prophet and invited friends over for discussions, interacted with numerous critics, read all the FARMS stuff, and thought I was effective in my desire to share the truth. You know, I took the command, "every member a missionary," seriously.

I was a fan of Nibley, read all his stuff and believed it, (sigh), believed all the garbage the prophets stated, (not realizing they were just sharing their very uninformed option), and truly thought science, new information, and discoveries would support the LDS church teachings and beliefs.

To be honest I am very embarrassed about it all.

I wish there was a way to apologize to the many people with whom I wasted their time, and I wish there was a way to take back the time I wasted. It is one of my biggest regrets.

~td~