DiscussMormonism.com

Nemesis made the following comment on MDD:

Nemesis wrote:Even in Liz's attempt at reconciliation we see how she places blame on us stating they will stop attacking us if we stop attacking them.

I actually never placed that blame or made that statement. I simply stated that BOTH boards should stop the trashing. There was no "if, then" condition in my statements.

This was my exact quote, for what it's worth:

Liz wrote:Maybe BOTH boards can simply quit trying to turn the boards into each other, and just accept the differences for what they are.

We'll quit trashing MDD. You guys quit trashing MDB. We simply accept that the boards are different, and have different purposes.

I would also like to go beyond that, and establish that we quit trashing individuals. It's done routinely on BOTH sides of the aisle. I think it's important to remember that, whatever religion or beliefs we choose to engage in....we all have families...many of us are parents, grandparents, teachers, etc. I think there is more to celebrate about the positive attributes we share than the negative.

The connection that we all inevitably have, is that we are tied by some form or another to the LDS Church for very different reasons.

Even if some of those reasons have been negative, one aspect that I see is positive is that we have formed a variety of very strong friendships.

I would like to see the friendships as a whole celebrated, and the stupid fighting end once and for all.

I think that if both boards are simply willing to accept that the administrative styles to both boards are different....not better or worse from one another...just different....maybe this can be accomplished.

As you can see from the bolded part I emphasized, there is no "if, then" condition. It is simply a hope that both boards could accomplish this.

What I actually think is the most important is that we get away from attacking individuals. There is a huge difference in criticizing ideas and attacking someone personally.

When I was a Mod on FAIR, I didn't like the way some people attacked others. There were folks there who didn't even realize that was what they were doing. One conversation that comes to mind was with Charity. After I explained to her that some of her comments, and overall tone were more attacking on a personal basis than the content, she actually apologized, and changed her tone. She and I actually become quite good friends, and since I am now banned from that board, I miss the friendship we were able to establish, since I did not get her email address before that incident.

One rule that I would really like to change on this board is to have ALL personal attacks relegated to the Telestial Forum. I think that if we did that, topics would tend to stay on task more easily.

If it were my board, I would do away with ALL personal attacks, but I do understand Shades' vision for censorship, and I think that this would be a good compromise.

I would also like to see more consistent consequences for rule breakers.

Shades may want to think about recruiting a couple more moderators. If anyone is interested, I know that Shades would be interested in reading your PM's. As much as I enjoy Moderating on Shades' board, and still support Shades' vision for free speech, my new job has become more demanding, and I have, unfortunately, had less time to commit to the board, overall.

I know that many of you here don't agree with me, which is fine....that's what a free speech board is about. ;-)

In spite of differences that we may have, though, I do want to make it clear that the constant that keeps me active in both posting and moderating on this board is the array of friendships I have established here. Although we live in various parts of the world, we are able to communicate as if we live next door, and I think that is great! There are several of you here....Jersey Girl, Runtu, Dan Peterson, Bond, Harmony, Shades, Porter...and I know I am leaving others out....who I have in real life connections with, either through Facebook, email, phone, or a combination. Those friendships are extremely important to me, and you folks have become like a second family to me over the years.

I really hope that we can move beyond all of this nonsense, and just get along.

ALL personal attacks relegated to the Telestial Forum

I'd support that.

ALL personal attacks relegated to the Telestial Forum

How about all antiMormonism to the Telestial as well, leaving actual criticism? The air would become quite rarified up here, but that would be more in keeping with the venue. Who can judge between the two? I can. Would be happy to partner with someone from the other side to establish some rules of thumb.

This seems to be the point the people here miss. No matter how much you separate all of the topics, Google doesn't. Personal, vial, or inflammatory stuff gets feed equally into the internet machine.

Why this board is insistent on protecting insults, namecalling, or libel is beyond me. It is counter to the name of the board. This should be called "Mormon Playground".

JMS

liz3564 wrote:I know that Shades would be interested in reading your PM's.

Actually, no; this isn't the MD&D boards, so I'm NOT interested in reading your PMs--your PMs are truly private here. Besides, I don't have the power to do it anyway.

I would, however, be interested in reading PMs that are actually sent to me.

One rule that I would really like to change on this board is to have ALL personal attacks relegated to the Telestial Forum. I think that if we did that, topics would tend to stay on task more easily.

That's a great idea, and I can get onboard with it in theory, but knowing human nature as I do, there's a very fine line between a personal attack and a relevant observation. Where do we draw the line? And when we do draw the line, the poster whose post gets moved will accost us and claim that his/her post was a criticism and not a personal attack per se.

So, although I definitely like the idea, I'm not quite sure how we can be FAIR about it in practice. So I'm torn.

bcspace wrote:How about all antiMormonism to the Telestial as well, leaving actual criticism?

In the eyes of believing Mormons, all criticism is anti-Mormonism. So your suggestion wouldn't work.

Liz, if only your plan could work but human nature being as it is on both sides ...

I hope you can find more moderators, it would greatly improve the board to get objectionable material removed quickly. I'd volunteer but for various reasons don't think I'd be a good fit in the job; BUT OMG, not bcspace! You wouldn't consider that for a moment, really, would you? Please assure me that you wouldn't.

How do we do it??

Start big and whittle down.

There is no shortage of outright name calling on this board. Douchebag, idiot, etc. are common. If you can provide me a context in which calling someone an idiot or a douchebag is "observation", then I'll re-think this. I can't think of any reason for this.

Personally, I say we delete the entire response if a name is called. Sure would make people think twice before they engage in outright nasty namecalling, right?

Liz

One rule that I would really like to change on this board is to have ALL personal attacks relegated to the Telestial Forum. I think that if we did that, topics would tend to stay on task more easily.

Shades

That's a great idea, and I can get onboard with it in theory, but knowing human nature as I do, there's a very fine line between a personal attack and a relevant observation. Where do we draw the line? And when we do draw the line, the poster whose post gets moved will accost us and claim that his/her post was a criticism and not a personal attack per se.

So, although I definitely like the idea, I'm not quite sure how we can be FAIR about it in practice. So I'm torn.

As I have stated in perhaps three posts already, Shades, I would like to see the already existing rules enforced. Here are our rules for Terrestrial with the applicable portion underlined:

RULES FOR THE TERRESTRIAL FORUM AND THE OFF-TOPIC FORUM:

Keep all communications "Rated PG" to "Rated PG-13" or better.
No blatant or otherwise obvious personal attacks allowed.
Do not use the "F" or "S" words or any of their many variants. Altering the spelling or substituting a symbol for a character does not give you a free pass to disregard this rule.
No specific temple content allowed.

In the past, this rule has been enforced only with regards to the thread topic.

Why?

The rule clearly states that no blatant or otherwise personal attacks are allowed. There is no specification there with regards to thread topic.

Granted that what constitutes "personal attack" is in the eye of both the attacker and attackee, you can still act on the above already existing rule.

This is why I asked you about moving posts into the Mod Forum for deliberation. Another possible method is to drag the questionable posts into a "Queue Forum" where everyone can see the post in question, protest the removal of such if they will, etc.

This is the same idea as was utilized on Z, and from my perspective, it worked quite well.

The easiest method, I believe, would be simply to move personal attack posts directly into the Telestial and let folks protest in that area of the board.

Shades, remember that this is not a new concept. The rules that were drawn up, and still exist, were part of the "Great Moderatorial Experiment". Of course there was some additional tweaking of the rules as we went along.

My point is, that the rules are already in place. They are good rules and I think the answer to this current series of controversy, is to USE the standing rules.
All of the regular posters on this board know what the rules are, there are those who have simply ignored the rules without consequence.

Once again--Please USE the already existing rules that we have.

Shades wrote:Actually, no; this isn't the MD&D boards, so I'm NOT interested in reading your PMs--your PMs are truly private here. Besides, I don't have the power to do it anyway.

I would, however, be interested in reading PMs that are actually sent to me.

Shades--

I certainly hope that your comment here was tongue-in-cheek.

What I meant, of course, was that you would be happy to receive PM's from those interested in moderating for the board.

Sorry if that was unclear.

As someone who had my PM's to others read by Admin while on another board, I would NEVER imply that reading PM's that were not addressed to you was a good idea.

As I have stated in perhaps three posts already, Shades, I would like to see the already existing rules enforced.

Very good point. I agree.