DiscussMormonism.com

Here's hoping it is.

I hope I didn't scare you off from lurking, by starting this thread.

I haven't come to join the DCP-bashing, Sock, but I really do think that some "perspectives" are in order. I support Kishkumen's thread, as noted by Dr. Kish himself. I've been both a friend and critic of DCP, but I still consider myself "the man in the middle". I totally refuse to post on MDDB (I'm banned anyway), but I do think that Dr. Peterson has been subjected to unnecessary slander. I've never criticised his son, his wife, or family, and deem these things unconscionable. I have criticised some of his approaches to apologetics, and we have some disagreements in sundry areas, but by and large I think this "campaign" has been misdirected. It has become too personal.

Dr. Peterson is human; doesn't have a photographic memory, and certainly isn't sinless. Is anyone, in greater or lesser degrees? He has come here to share what he believes, and he should be accorded that right without harassment, and interrogation, about where he was at 4pm on the 25th March 1985. No, don't "hang him", because by doing so you only demonstrate a worldview I completely distance myself from. If you think an "eye for an eye only makes the world blind" - then you are probably correct.

Hey, Ray. It is great to see you. I agree with you.

RayAgostini wrote:I haven't come to join the DCP-bashing, Sock, but I really do think that some "perspectives" are in order. I support Kishkumen's thread, as noted by Dr. Kish himself. I've been both a friend and critic of DCP, but I still consider myself "the man in the middle". I totally refuse to post on MDDB (I'm banned anyway), but I do think that Dr. Peterson has been subjected to unnecessary slander. I've never criticised his son, his wife, or family, and deem these things unconscionable. I have criticised some of his approaches to apologetics, and we have some disagreements in sundry areas, but by and large I think this "campaign" has been misdirected. It has become too personal.

Dr. Peterson is human; doesn't have a photographic memory, and certainly isn't sinless. Is anyone, in greater or lesser degrees? He has come here to share what he believes, and he should be accorded that right without harassment, and interrogation, about where he was at 4pm on the 25th March 1985. No, don't "hang him", because by doing so you only demonstrate a worldview I completely distance myself from. If you think an "eye for an eye only makes the world blind" - then you are probably correct.

Welcome back, Ray! :-)

I hope you decide to stick around. I have missed you!

RayAgostini wrote:I haven't come to join the DCP-bashing, Sock, but I really do think that some "perspectives" are in order. I support Kishkumen's thread, as noted by Dr. Kish himself. I've been both a friend and critic of DCP, but I still consider myself "the man in the middle". I totally refuse to post on MDDB (I'm banned anyway), but I do think that Dr. Peterson has been subjected to unnecessary slander. I've never criticised his son, his wife, or family, and deem these things unconscionable. I have criticised some of his approaches to apologetics, and we have some disagreements in sundry areas, but by and large I think this "campaign" has been misdirected. It has become too personal.

Dr. Peterson is human; doesn't have a photographic memory, and certainly isn't sinless. Is anyone, in greater or lesser degrees? He has come here to share what he believes, and he should be accorded that right without harassment, and interrogation, about where he was at 4pm on the 25th March 1985. No, don't "hang him", because by doing so you only demonstrate a worldview I completely distance myself from. If you think an "eye for an eye only makes the world blind" - then you are probably correct.

Ray, will you be bringing back your Joan of Arc avatar? Assuming it isn't copyrighted, that is.

My hope for your return was not a hope for reinforcements to counter Daniel Peterson.

When Peterson offered as evidence of the existence of the elusive '2nd Watson Letter' his (Peterson's) insistence that he saw it with his own eyes and held with his own hands, and named 5 other NAMIRians that did likewise, and it turns out there was no 2nd Watson Letter, then I think where he was at such and such distant date is fair game. beastie game Peterson every opportunity by pointing out the frailties of human memory, but Peterson was having none of it.

No one, including Peterson, should be permitted to re-write the past and do so beyond the reach of questioning about it.

I think that we have seattleghostwriter to thank for the changes now happening with this board and the overexcesses of some posters in bashing him.

Amazing the change of heart toward DCP bashing. It should have happened a couple of years ago. Was it really Kish who started this ball rolling? I don't think so. True he is a big name on this board but it really wasn't his idea at all.

I may be just a small fry here but I have been outspoken about the bashing on this board, especially toward DCP and its origins with DCP bashing which finally led to the outrage about the bashing of SeattleGhostWriter. I gave my opinions on the shades/culture thread.

But it is good that Kish is on board. He is a critic and the critics are more likely to listen to the Captain.

RayAgostini wrote:
Dr. Peterson is human; doesn't have a photographic memory, and certainly isn't sinless. Is anyone, in greater or lesser degrees? He has come here to share what he believes, and he should be accorded that right without harassment, and interrogation, about where he was at 4pm on the 25th March 1985. No, don't "hang him", because by doing so you only demonstrate a worldview I completely distance myself from. If you think an "eye for an eye only makes the world blind" - then you are probably correct.

Of course, it would have been nice if you had some clout when Dan was being bashed a couple of years ago. The abuse that Dan took, with very little problems from the critics, on this board was very insensitive and showed very little sympathy from critics on this board. And I don't remember if you were outspoken against the bashing. But I do remember a lot of silence from the board's critics.

sock puppet wrote:No one, including Peterson, should be permitted to re-write the past and do so beyond the reach of questioning about it.

I'll make it clear from the start that I won't be posting here as much as I did before. That said, true, no one should be beyond questioning, not even DCP. No one should be subjected to constant personal attacks, either. As both a victim (to some degree) and a perpetrator of such attacks in the past, I think it's time to move beyond this. It's unsavoury and unhelpful, and a turn off for many potential posters. I think such a move, from the administrative end as well, would make this place far more appealing to defenders. There's no point denying how many quality defenders have either left, or will rarely post, because they know the real risk of being personally attacked; threads being diverted; and being "ganged up" by critics. Yes, it happens on MDDB too, to critics. I experienced it firsthand. But there no reason it can't be better here. This is the worst aspects of boards (in general), the "ganging up" mentality, usually while others sit by silently watching "the show", which they call "entertainment", unless they are the subject of the attack.

Dr. Peterson has been subjected to far more than he ever deserved. I foolishly over-indulged in attacks myself, but realised some time ago that it was grossly unfair. So while this may make me seem somewhat hypocritical, I believe change is possible, but being realistic I'd also have to say probably unlikely. I'm prepared to change myself (and you know the Gandhi saying, "be the change you wish to see"), but I'm not prepared to continue in an atmosphere of bullying and character assassination, and I don't think Dr. Peterson is, either.

You know in Oz we have a popular saying, "fair go". This board is not defender territory; to many of them it is hostile territory. If the aim is to win at any cost, rather than have fair and balanced debates - then MDB will be the only loser.

Good to see see you, Ray!!

All rested, I hope.