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Re: Speaking of masturbation...

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:50 pm
by _Rambo
why me wrote:
Rambo wrote:
The funny thing is once you are out of the church the porn use goes down. It does not have the "oh this is really bad" feeling about it anymore. Porn pretty much losses a lot of it's appeal when you don't think it is a sin anymore. For some odd reason it had more of an appeal when you think it is a sin.


Is this a joke? Porn is a billion dollar industry. You make it seem like the porn watchers are religious people who are sexually frustrated. Maybe so, but they make up a small minority. The two most addicted countries to porn are south korea an japan. No christianity there. Porn becomes addictive when it enters the blood stream. When it does, it is difficult to get it out of the blood.

But for the actors and actresses, it is a matter of work. And the porn industry wants the actors to do stranger things now. Many men use viagra because of what they have to do and actresses can at times be found in the bathroom puking from what they did on camera.

Appeal of sin? No. Once addicted always addicted.

Well you of course know Utah has the highest rate of porn use in the states. That's right it must be all the non Mormons in utah that are extra horny.

I do actually think porn use would go down amoung Mormon men if they didn't keep focusing on it and calling it a sin.

Re: Speaking of masturbation...

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:51 pm
by _Buffalo
why me wrote:
Rambo wrote:
The funny thing is once you are out of the church the porn use goes down. It does not have the "oh this is really bad" feeling about it anymore. Porn pretty much losses a lot of it's appeal when you don't think it is a sin anymore. For some odd reason it had more of an appeal when you think it is a sin.


Is this a joke? Porn is a billion dollar industry. You make it seem like the porn watchers are religious people who are sexually frustrated. Maybe so, but they make up a small minority. The two most addicted countries to porn are south korea an japan. No christianity there. Porn becomes addictive when it enters the blood stream. When it does, it is difficult to get it out of the blood.

But for the actors and actresses, it is a matter of work. And the porn industry wants the actors to do stranger things now. Many men use viagra because of what they have to do and actresses can at times be found in the bathroom puking from what they did on camera.

Appeal of sin? No. Once addicted always addicted.


Abstinence Violation Effect

http://www.bookrags.com/research/abstin ... e-edaa-01/

Re: Speaking of masturbation...

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:53 pm
by _Yoda
Jason Bourne wrote:As a bishop I would just go over the law of chastity in general when I met with kids. If they brought things up specifically then we would chat about those things. If they brought up masturbation I let them know the Church discouraged it but also it was more of a minor thing in the Church's eyes unless it was habitual and accompanied with use of porn.

I tell my last child at home that it is really no big deal if unless it is habitual. I also told her she does not need to discuss things with the bishop that makes her uncomfortable and if she has problems she needs help with her mom and I can help her or she can talk to a YW leader as well if she would prefer.

I knew one bishop in my stake who said "I don't ask the boys if the masturbate. I ask them when the last time was that they did it." I found that boorish and over the top.


Jason--You need to be teaching a training class for new bishops.

If every bishop handled things the way you did, the Church would be a much better place. :-)

I mean that sincerely.

I know you were an awesome bishop, and you are, obviously, an awesome Dad!

Re: Speaking of masturbation...

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:56 pm
by _Buffalo
liz3564 wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:As a bishop I would just go over the law of chastity in general when I met with kids. If they brought things up specifically then we would chat about those things. If they brought up masturbation I let them know the Church discouraged it but also it was more of a minor thing in the Church's eyes unless it was habitual and accompanied with use of porn.

I tell my last child at home that it is really no big deal if unless it is habitual. I also told her she does not need to discuss things with the bishop that makes her uncomfortable and if she has problems she needs help with her mom and I can help her or she can talk to a YW leader as well if she would prefer.

I knew one bishop in my stake who said "I don't ask the boys if the masturbate. I ask them when the last time was that they did it." I found that boorish and over the top.


Jason--You need to be teaching a training class for new bishops.

If every bishop handled things the way you did, the Church would be a much better place. :-)

I mean that sincerely.

I know you were an awesome bishop, and you are, obviously, an awesome Dad!


Agreed!

Re: Speaking of masturbation...

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:58 pm
by _Yoda
why me wrote:
liz3564 wrote:
Why Me, that was a completely inappropriate remark.

If we weren't trying to clean up our personal attacks, I would be calling you an asshole right now. However, since we are trying to change our culture, I'll refrain. ;-)


I don't think that it was an inappropriate remark at all. It was a practical comment. Boys and masturbation can be a messy affair. And that was my point with the missionary example. Not fun to see spots on the floor for all concerned.


BS! It was an inappropriate comment, and you know it. You were trying to take an indirect pot shot at Just Me by going into graphic detail of the "mess" created by her supposedly masturbating son.

At least have the balls to admit what you're doing.

Re: Speaking of masturbation...

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:05 pm
by _Buffalo
liz3564 wrote:BS! It was an inappropriate comment, and you know it. You were trying to take an indirect pot shot at Just Me by going into graphic detail of the "mess" created by her supposedly masturbating son.

At least have the balls to admit what you're doing.


Why Me just can't resist making creepy comments.

Re: Speaking of masturbation...

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:05 am
by _Tator
Why me reveals his knowledge of porn is this past thread

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16532&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=porn*&start=21

he is a self-proclaimed expert.

Re: Speaking of masturbation...

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:17 am
by _Yoda
I posted this in response to someone in the "Why do you post on MDB" thread, but it really belongs here. Comments are welcome:

Actually, the LDS Church and the Jewish Church have very similar rules about sex. I just found a very interesting article about the Jewish views regarding sex. Read the portion about sex and women, in particular. I wish that our Church spelled things out this plainly.
Jewish Attitudes Towards Sexuality

In Jewish law, sex is not considered shameful, sinful or obscene. Sex is not thought of as a necessary evil for the sole purpose of procreation. Although sexual desire comes from the yetzer ra (the evil impulse), it is no more evil than hunger or thirst, which also come from the yetzer ra. Like hunger, thirst or other basic instincts, sexual desire must be controlled and channeled, satisfied at the proper time, place and manner. But when sexual desire is satisfied between a husband and wife at the proper time, out of mutual love and desire, sex is a mitzvah.

Sex is permissible only within the context of a marriage. In Judaism, sex is not merely a way of experiencing physical pleasure. It is an act of immense significance, which requires commitment and responsibility. The requirement of marriage before sex ensures that sense of commitment and responsibility. Jewish law also forbids sexual contact short of intercourse outside of the context of marriage, recognizing that such contact will inevitably lead to intercourse.

The primary purpose of sex is to reinforce the loving marital bond between husband and wife. The first and foremost purpose of marriage is companionship, and sexual relations play an important role. Procreation is also a reason for sex, but it is not the only reason. Sex between husband and wife is permitted (even recommended) at times when conception is impossible, such as when the woman is pregnant, after menopause, or when the woman is using a permissible form of contraception.

In the Torah, the word used for sex between husband and wife comes from the root Yod-Dalet-Ayin, meaning "to know," which vividly illustrates that proper Jewish sexuality involves both the heart and mind, not merely the body.

Nevertheless, Judaism does not ignore the physical component of sexuality. The need for physical compatibility between husband and wife is recognized in Jewish law. A Jewish couple must meet at least once before the marriage, and if either prospective spouse finds the other physically repulsive, the marriage is forbidden.

Sex should only be experienced in a time of joy. Sex for selfish personal satisfaction, without regard for the partner's pleasure, is wrong and evil. A man may never force his wife to have sex. A couple may not have sexual relations while drunk or quarreling. Sex may never be used as a weapon against a spouse, either by depriving the spouse of sex or by compelling it. It is a serious offense to use sex (or lack thereof) to punish or manipulate a spouse.

Sex is the woman's right, not the man's. A man has a duty to give his wife sex regularly and to ensure that sex is pleasurable for her. He is also obligated to watch for signs that his wife wants sex, and to offer it to her without her asking for it. The woman's right to sexual intercourse is referred to as onah, and it is one of a wife's three basic rights (the others are food and clothing), which a husband may not reduce. The Talmud specifies both the quantity and quality of sex that a man must give his wife. It specifies the frequency of sexual obligation based on the husband's occupation, although this obligation can be modified in the ketubah (marriage contract). A man may not take a vow to abstain from sex for an extended period of time, and may not take a journey for an extended period of time, because that would deprive his wife of sexual relations. In addition, a husband's consistent refusal to engage in sexual relations is grounds for compelling a man to divorce his wife, even if the couple has already fulfilled the halakhic obligation to procreate.

Although sex is the woman's right, she does not have absolute discretion to withhold it from her husband. A woman may not withhold sex from her husband as a form of punishment, and if she does, the husband may divorce her without paying the substantial divorce settlement provided for in the ketubah.

Although some sources take a more narrow view, the general view of halakhah is that any sexual act that does not involve sh'chatat zerah (destruction of seed, that is, ejaculation outside the vagina) is permissible. As one passage in the Talmud states, "a man may do whatever he pleases with his wife." (Nedarim 20b) In fact, there are passages in the Talmud that encourage foreplay to arouse the woman. (Nedarim 20a). Any stories you may have heard about Jewish sex occurring through a hole in a sheet are purely an urban legend.


These are the Jewish views on masturbation:

Jewish law clearly prohibits male masturbation. This law is derived from the story of Onan (Gen. 38:8-10), who practiced coitus interruptus as a means of birth control to avoid fathering a child for his deceased brother. G-d killed Onan for this sin. Although Onan's act was not truly masturbation, Jewish law takes a very broad view of the acts prohibited by this passage, and forbids any act of ha-sh'cha'tat zerah (destruction of the seed), that is, ejaculation outside of the vagina. In fact, the prohibition is so strict that one passage in the Talmud states, "in the case of a man, the hand that reaches below the navel should be chopped off." (Niddah 13a)

The issue is somewhat less clear for women. Obviously, spilling the seed is not going to happen in female masturbation, and there is no explicit Torah prohibition against female masturbation. Nevertheless, Judaism generally frowns upon female masturbation as "impure thoughts."


http://www.jewfaq.org/sex.htm

Re: Speaking of masturbation...

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:21 am
by _just me
Maybe the reason it is okay for women to masturbate is that no seeds are wasted. It seems to be about the precious, precious seeds. Of course, if one uses any form of birth control the seeds are wasted, too.

Re: Speaking of masturbation...

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:45 am
by _Yoda
just me wrote:Maybe the reason it is okay for women to masturbate is that no seeds are wasted. It seems to be about the precious, precious seeds. Of course, if one uses any form of birth control the seeds are wasted, too.


Take a look here, though. It seems that some methods of birth control are accepted:
The primary purpose of sex is to reinforce the loving marital bond between husband and wife. The first and foremost purpose of marriage is companionship, and sexual relations play an important role. Procreation is also a reason for sex, but it is not the only reason. Sex between husband and wife is permitted (even recommended) at times when conception is impossible, such as when the woman is pregnant, after menopause, or when the woman is using a permissible form of contraception.


(Bold emphasis mine)
It looks here like the permissible form of birth control is likely the pill, since it specifies "the woman" using it.

This is still a sign of patriarchy being alive and well in the Jewish culture. They don't seem to view the egg as holding the same importance as the sperm. ;-)