Being critical of the teachings of other faiths
Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:47 pm
Simon, I have some questions for you.
You've expressed strong disagreement with rich kelsey for posting articles on his Web site that critique the teachings and history of other faith groups, namely the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Seventh-Day Adventists, and the Latter-day Saints (Mormons). On that thread, you said:
I have not read Rich's articles, so this thread should not be taken to mean I endorse anything he has written. But I have to ask: Simon, are you likewise opposed to the attacks your church leaders have made on members of other Christian faiths?
Here are some examples:
This is part of the church's modern canonized scriptures, and not a neglected part, either. It appears regularly in current teaching curricula and is taught in the missionary discussions when potential converts are introduced to the church. That means that some 52,000 Mormons comb the globe teaching whomever may listen that the beliefs of other Christians are an "abomination" in the sight of God. Are you opposed to this?
There's this from the 2009 Gospel Principles manual (emphases mine):
This teaches that other Christians were corrupted by "pagan" beliefs, that their form of Christianity is "false," that they don't understand God's love for us, that they have no spiritual gifts, and that they are not of "the Church of Jesus Christ" but rather "a church of men." It even implies that they aren't properly Christians at all ("those called Christians"). It specifically criticizes one Christian, Theodosius I (who is considered a Saint in the Eastern Orthodox tradition) for making "false Christianity" the state religion. Do you think these are acceptable things to say about members of other Christian faiths?
From the current Doctrine & Covenants Reader's Manual:
Again, claiming that other Christians are not part of "the true Church of Jesus Christ," and here it's told with tacky pictures of ministers from other Christian denominations so that LDS children understand just which religions are the wrong ones. Are you okay with this, Simon?
The church has made other institutionalized attacks on other Christians, such as the one found in the pre-1990 temple ceremony. I won't go into more details than that since this is the Terrestrial forum.
These all strike me as attacks on the beliefs of other Christians, Simon. Are these things okay with you?
My own position is that it's quite normal and healthy for members of proselyting faiths that make competing truth claims to critique one another. So long as the critique is made sincerely and respectfully, I see no problem with it. I object to the inaccurate things in the sections I quoted above, such as claiming that other Christians don't believe God has "substance," and I also object when someone makes gratuitous negative mentions of the beliefs of others, but I have no objections on principle if Mormons want to say that our creeds are an abomination and whatnot. If God really is an embodied male who progressed from a state of spirit intelligence to exaltation, I would find it odd if he weren't wroth with those who have distorted his true nature.
You've expressed strong disagreement with rich kelsey for posting articles on his Web site that critique the teachings and history of other faith groups, namely the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Seventh-Day Adventists, and the Latter-day Saints (Mormons). On that thread, you said:
Simon Belmont wrote:Rich,
Will you address my concerns?
Why do you attack other faiths?
Do you understand the similar problems inherent in your own?
Does attacking other faiths bring about Christian love, or hate?
I have not read Rich's articles, so this thread should not be taken to mean I endorse anything he has written. But I have to ask: Simon, are you likewise opposed to the attacks your church leaders have made on members of other Christian faiths?
Here are some examples:
Joseph Smith---History 1:19 wrote:I was answered that I must join none of them [i. e. the existing Christian denominations of the day], for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."
This is part of the church's modern canonized scriptures, and not a neglected part, either. It appears regularly in current teaching curricula and is taught in the missionary discussions when potential converts are introduced to the church. That means that some 52,000 Mormons comb the globe teaching whomever may listen that the beliefs of other Christians are an "abomination" in the sight of God. Are you opposed to this?
There's this from the 2009 Gospel Principles manual (emphases mine):
Gospel Principles wrote:Soon pagan beliefs dominated the thinking of those called Christians. The Roman emperor adopted this false Christianity as the state religion. This church was very different from the church Jesus organized. It taught that God was a being without form or substance.
These people lost the understanding of God’s love for us. They did not know that we are his children. They did not understand the purpose of life. Many of the ordinances were changed because the priesthood and revelation were no longer on the earth.
The emperor chose his own leaders and sometimes called them by the same titles used by priesthood leaders in the true Church of Christ. There were no Apostles or other priesthood leaders with power from God, and there were no spiritual gifts. The prophet Isaiah had foreseen this condition, prophesying, “The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant” (Isaiah 24:5). It was the Church of Jesus Christ no longer; it was a church of men. Even the name had been changed.
This teaches that other Christians were corrupted by "pagan" beliefs, that their form of Christianity is "false," that they don't understand God's love for us, that they have no spiritual gifts, and that they are not of "the Church of Jesus Christ" but rather "a church of men." It even implies that they aren't properly Christians at all ("those called Christians"). It specifically criticizes one Christian, Theodosius I (who is considered a Saint in the Eastern Orthodox tradition) for making "false Christianity" the state religion. Do you think these are acceptable things to say about members of other Christian faiths?
From the current Doctrine & Covenants Reader's Manual:
Again, claiming that other Christians are not part of "the true Church of Jesus Christ," and here it's told with tacky pictures of ministers from other Christian denominations so that LDS children understand just which religions are the wrong ones. Are you okay with this, Simon?
The church has made other institutionalized attacks on other Christians, such as the one found in the pre-1990 temple ceremony. I won't go into more details than that since this is the Terrestrial forum.
These all strike me as attacks on the beliefs of other Christians, Simon. Are these things okay with you?
My own position is that it's quite normal and healthy for members of proselyting faiths that make competing truth claims to critique one another. So long as the critique is made sincerely and respectfully, I see no problem with it. I object to the inaccurate things in the sections I quoted above, such as claiming that other Christians don't believe God has "substance," and I also object when someone makes gratuitous negative mentions of the beliefs of others, but I have no objections on principle if Mormons want to say that our creeds are an abomination and whatnot. If God really is an embodied male who progressed from a state of spirit intelligence to exaltation, I would find it odd if he weren't wroth with those who have distorted his true nature.